Provide blank or transparent or hiding option for top status panel

Andrew Heard shared this idea 22 months ago
Declined

I am trying to reduce the chance of unintended tapping a top row Locus button while performing a single wave gesture to toggle the display on & off. On my phone the IR proximity detection only works reliably with an object very close to the screen - close enough that a tap may also occur by accident. I have "given up" full screen mode as this places all buttons closer to the IR/ proximity sensor, and I have moved all my user defined buttons from the top to the right side. I then had to move all custom dashboard fields from (original) right side to left side. Of course, this results in wasted space, but I really want to use the single wave gesture control while cycling instead of having to press the tiny power button while wearing gloves. I don't need any info displayed in the top panel (screen cap below), for me it is wasted space, so my suggestion is to provide a 9th option in the list: blank or transparent, or alternate method to hide this auto-sizing panel completely.

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Comments (13)

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Some results with the Sony Xperia Z1 IR (proximity) sensor and Sony's own diagnostics app. Distance above IR sensor for detection of an object:

  • 15..20mm with small piece of white (IR reflective) paper
  • 10mm with typical greasy cycling glove

10mm is as close as

touching. When riding I can't "hover" my hand precisely & reliably 10mm above the

surface (to avoid tapping). Best I can do is briefly grip or rest hand on the top/ left corner near the sensor.

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This video shows that sometimes gesture works, and sometimes it doesn't ;-(

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Hello Andrew,

I'm playing with Z1C device I have at home (expect it will use exactly same sensor as your Z1).


Agree that it do not work always on 100%. Wave is quite hard to detect sometimes. I personally found a lot better simply cover sensor with hand (not fingers). For "turn screen off" it works for me on 100%. Turn on seems to be worst, but here is not a problem to cover sensor completely without worry of touching.


So what is your problem here? In case you try to turn off screen, you also by accident tap on any button in top toolbar? Same happen when you use palm and just cover sensor?

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Hi Menion. In your testing are you riding a bike with gloves on? When the phone is just on the table it's not hard to just touch the correct part of the phone, of course. And a whole hand? More likely to accidentally tap the screen.


Until now while cycling I've used my right hand for the "wave" gesture. I just find it

easier taking right hand off handlebars. BUT it does cross over the screen

& I now see it increases chance of a false tap. So

tomorrow I will try & train myself to use my left hand. And rest my hand

on the top of my phone cradle just above the screen. Will see how it goes.


>you also by accident tap on any button in top toolbar?

YES! exactly the problem


So I've tried to move the virtual buttons further away from the IR sensor, as described (no full screen, move top buttons to right side), but it's also a waste of valuable screen space. One other possibility as described in the forum is to ignore any tap for short period after screen is turned on from gesture.

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Andrew, (mobile now, so sorry for typos).

I was looking at that example video. As actual Locus Beta Proximity detection is by the trailing edge method I do think you are tapping too fast between 2 screen on/offf sessions.

I suppose such fast tapping sequence screen on/off session in real use only rarely would happen. No ?

By actual Beta 3.20.1.8 Locus test system you have to wait for at least 2 a 3 seconds between another screen switch action trigger to be performed succesfully.

Only if using that superior (IMO) more interactive faster method by the leading edge detection technique, such fast (test)sequences would be succesfull as well.

I've tested such very fast switches by leading trigger system in some example video's, already presented in some previous comments in Locus discussion forum.

But well, has only 3 views...anyway have a new look at this video, see the Locus map view from 00:30 to end = A fast enough screen switch on/off sequence I do suppose ;-) https://youtu.be/QiA38m6EEgs

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Thanks Willy, agree that this fast gestures may cause troubles and because they are far from real usage, I've ignored them. Anyway may confirm, that Sony Z1 device react only on really close "waves", which may be a problem during movement ...

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Hello,

hmm testing just home on a desk, as usually ;).


> YES! exactly the problem

Understand, but you suggestion with disabled touching for a while when screen is turned on, does no help here, because this accidental tap happen when you turn screen off, as I asked, right? Or this happen also when you use this gesture to turn screen on?


I'm really thinking about finding some usable solution for these cases ...


So generally ...

turning screen on

- is here any problem? Are you tapping any button by accident when you turn screen on by gesture?


Turning screen off:

here I can imagine, that some buttons are pressed by accident (like we talk here), solution should be:

- using button that allows to turn screen off: http://help.locusmap.eu/topic/add-power-off-button-on-screen

- using shorter timeout till screen goes off automatically, or by timeout defined in Locus itself

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Hi Menion,

As you know we also share experiences by PM on this particular subject.

And I have had test by similar less sensible 1cm proximity sensors as used in the Sony.

By same distance detection range as Andrews Sony.

Measurement confirmed by same method with black or white reflective area:

https://youtu.be/dnNKdkDs2Rg

Of coarse used wave/touch technique by user (training) also is important when using low sensitive sensors. I never have such a problem by unexpected screen touches.

Some video's I shared about used 'near touch method'. Using superior leading edge trigger !

https://youtu.be/47YmePqH8ro

https://youtu.be/NM59pgl3ZAU

My wife sometimes says I have 2 left hands on some jobs to do at home, but working with that Gesture function for me is an unproblematic nice positive experience only ;-)

Best regards,

Willy.

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Menion - 13 hr continuous testing on Sunday. 223km, 17 turn instructions, maybe 10 additional random on/ off gestures, so lets say 40 total gestures. Despite best of intentions about 7 of gestures resulted in accidental tap of screen. When display next turned on (automatic navigation instruction or just ad-hoc check) some other menu or screen was displayed. It seems to me, naive user, the accidental tap can occur at both display-on gesture and display-off gesture. Consider 2 possibilities:


  • Display is on, accidental tap just prior to gesture to turn off. When display is next turned on, unwanted screen is displayed.


  • Display is off, gesture to turn on just prior to accidental tap, unwanted screen is displayed.

I can't tell which of these two scenarios is occurring. Maybe just one, maybe both.

In addition, and only once yesterday, although I have seen it on other days, Locus or Android gets into mode in which ALL further gestures to turn on the display are completely ignored. I can press the power button, and display will turn on 100% reliably, and from then Locus gesture detection is working properly again.

For your interest power consumption was 2.8% per hour with navigation and track recording enabled. Display was only for very short periods, just long enough to read the instruction. This Locus power consumption has not changed over last year of measurements.

I have voted for the new soft power off button, but of course gesture is for scenario when cycling with gloves, and pressing small power button is difficult to locate/ feel, or on-screen buttons are unreliable because gloved finger is non-conductive. And, precious screen space needed for that new button.

I read further comment from Willy 1 day ago you think my gesture is too fast in video? But I thought the "window" was 0.5 to 2.0 seconds? If I make a slow gesture, and is just more than 2s long, now nothing happens, gesture is ignored by design. As Willy says, I wait 2s for trailing edge event instead of immediate response with leading edge event.

>I suppose such fast tapping sequence screen on/off session in real use only rarely would happen.

Willy - imagine me cycling, I don't want my hand off the handlebars for 2+ seconds stuffing around trying to turn the screen on and off. I want a quick action. This is definitely my real use, and not rare.

Final point - I started this worthwhile discussion in the forum, I thought it was more suitable format, but not much response. Now lots of discussion in help topic, good, but my original help topic is quite separate. My suggestion was about saving space of top status panel.

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Good day Andrew,

thanks for a precise description of this "problem".

Main point why I moved discussion to this point, is that I do not want to do requested feature, so I'm looking for real cause of problems and some alternatives. I really rather say "don't to use this proximity sensor handling", sorry.


Anyway understand, in winter it's even worst because of gloves without cut ends for fingers.


I don't know Andrew .. in this case it is bad combination of device with really short-range (malfunction?) sensor, winter gloves and probably hard terrain where is easier to wave with hand then turn screen on/off by button.


Even if I create some "panel" on top, it will work on for screen on, not for screen off action, so it is not real fully working solution.


For me, in this case if none of existing solutions is suitable for you, alternative should be some tiny 1, 2, 3 bluetooth buttons on handebar, like this ( http://www.dhgate.com/product/car-universal-steering-wheel-control-key/256073922.html , cannot find quickly better alternative ), where should be option to define keypress actions on every button. Then you should control screen on/off and also some other tasks ...


Sorry Andrew, I still do not see any globally useful solution on this problem, also because Willy and probably most hardcore user and tester of proximity sensor & Locus Map (thanks Willy!) find current solution usable.

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Most test it seems we have same experiences. Now our reports are different, well it is.

Too fast Andrew is about the high rate sequences between ON to OFF to ON sessions.

Locus Beta single wave is Very Good, but not TOP ! TOP single wave is: By the trailing edge system.

Nearing sensor by OR horizontal uncritical timed wave OR vertical controlled calm move (By light reflecting glove part) toward the sensor UNTIL screen switch than auto retract hand.

Simple and reliable. In pocket worry ? We are cycling sir, remember ? In pocket behave is not a primary concern. Easy prevent an accidental excessive screen on by correct Android screen off set.

Not cycling, proximity sensor control is off for me, but agree this display Gesture "Menu" item is a little bit too deeply hidden in Locus menu for comfortable fast on/off set.

DTSO has a large widget on/off button available. Nice easy friendly functional on/off. But seems to have a bug. Free users have to view the commercial ? (Using this app for comparative tests only)

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Sorry Andrew, my mistake ;-) The above should be corrected and read as:

Locus Beta single wave by the trailing edge technique is very good, but a Leading edge trigger system has a best superb direct interaction with the user and is even more reliable.

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0709 - you say "vertical controlled calm move (By light reflecting glove part) toward the sensor UNTIL screen switch than auto retract hand" - UNTIL? That would be ideal but you are implying leading edge trigger, at present you have to calming move hand towards screen THEN retract hand.

Maybe there could be a special config.cfg setting for specifying trailing (default) or leading edge trigger?

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