When editing a saved track, a manually edited route or a navigation route, one can modify it by selecting a point in "Modify on map" mode and inserting a single point after it.
It could be a good idea to have an additionnal menu item "Insert subtrack/subroute" or "Insert multiple points" that would directly allow to add multiple waypoints, using the same way that is currently used to edit a new route: one tap to add the center of the screen (+ ticker),, one tap to stop (green ticker).
I like this idea 
That looks excellent. One problem I see, but it may be my lack of experience/ understanding, it that when a track is currently computed offline, say with BRouter or GraphHopper, lots of new points (via/ shaping points?) are created that "lock" the track down, and need to be deleted if a new user inserted point is going to alter the position of the track.
That looks excellent. One problem I see, but it may be my lack of experience/ understanding, it that when a track is currently computed offline, say with BRouter or GraphHopper, lots of new points (via/ shaping points?) are created that "lock" the track down, and need to be deleted if a new user inserted point is going to alter the position of the track.
Thanks for feedback.
You are correct, I completely forget on these waypoints. Oki, I think they simply should be removed when underlaying trackpoint change. In case of waypoints created by hand during track record, they will stay on place where are (even little bit out of track).
Thanks for feedback.
You are correct, I completely forget on these waypoints. Oki, I think they simply should be removed when underlaying trackpoint change. In case of waypoints created by hand during track record, they will stay on place where are (even little bit out of track).
I think that is an excellent solution. The app should tell the difference between A) points that a user has manually added, and B) automatically computed points, and treat each type differently. This should help in editing a created track.
I think that is an excellent solution. The app should tell the difference between A) points that a user has manually added, and B) automatically computed points, and treat each type differently. This should help in editing a created track.
I can't get any of the new v3.7 track editing to work for me like in the AVI. None of the popup menus have "Insert Point" like in http://www.oldboys.at/dl/locus/insert6pointswish.avi.
There is no "Insert Point" tickbox in new Settings > Map objects > Points popup content or Tracks popup content.
Is the track editing supposed to work when Compute Source = BRouter with Compute Instructions disabled? Is the track supposed to be recomputed/ updated when points are inserted? For example if I see the computed track goes through one location automatically, but I then decide to force it through another location by inserting a point. It seems like there are two distinct track editing modes - the initial "Add new route & measure" mode has one set of tools, and the new <select track and then edit> mode has different tools.
Maybe the online manual could also be expanded with the new functionality, and any important settings that need to be set one way or the other. Maybe the difference between trackpoint and waypoint can be explained too?
I can't get any of the new v3.7 track editing to work for me like in the AVI. None of the popup menus have "Insert Point" like in http://www.oldboys.at/dl/locus/insert6pointswish.avi.
There is no "Insert Point" tickbox in new Settings > Map objects > Points popup content or Tracks popup content.
Is the track editing supposed to work when Compute Source = BRouter with Compute Instructions disabled? Is the track supposed to be recomputed/ updated when points are inserted? For example if I see the computed track goes through one location automatically, but I then decide to force it through another location by inserting a point. It seems like there are two distinct track editing modes - the initial "Add new route & measure" mode has one set of tools, and the new <select track and then edit> mode has different tools.
Maybe the online manual could also be expanded with the new functionality, and any important settings that need to be set one way or the other. Maybe the difference between trackpoint and waypoint can be explained too?
Another suggestion to supplement the online manual - create a video(s) of an expert Locus user demonstrating various features, in this case creating then later editing a track, and upload to YouTube. I assume this AVI was created on a virtual machine with a mouse, but a video using a real Android phone and/or tablet would be more helpful to the struggling novice user. And a picture can often tell a 1,000 words.
Another suggestion to supplement the online manual - create a video(s) of an expert Locus user demonstrating various features, in this case creating then later editing a track, and upload to YouTube. I assume this AVI was created on a virtual machine with a mouse, but a video using a real Android phone and/or tablet would be more helpful to the struggling novice user. And a picture can often tell a 1,000 words.
Andrew, too much requirements and suggestions in two short posts, so I'll answer only on most important. Improved editing of track points - tap on a track and from submenu choose "Edit on map". New bottom panel appear on a map with "Tools" button. If you want to edit location of current selected track point, simply choose "Edit location". Hope this helps.
And we work on a new manual, so this feature (which developing is in progress) will be there for sure.
Andrew, too much requirements and suggestions in two short posts, so I'll answer only on most important. Improved editing of track points - tap on a track and from submenu choose "Edit on map". New bottom panel appear on a map with "Tools" button. If you want to edit location of current selected track point, simply choose "Edit location". Hope this helps.
And we work on a new manual, so this feature (which developing is in progress) will be there for sure.
Hi Menion, I already experimented with what you suggest but it doesn't really help. I still can't find the "Insert point" like in the gynta AVI. Two points:
1) Because there are so many hidden points in a BRouter or GraphHopper track, moving or deleting those points to alter a track is an endless task. It simply doesn't work at present, compared to other apps like MapFactor Navigator or Sygic. With Sygic I can drag the track to a new point and the whole track is recomputed, just like the online http://brouter.de/brouter-web/.
2) When I do move or delete points there is no auto recalculation using the Compute Source anyway, only a direct line between the remaining points.
It will be interesting to hear how other users like the offline track editing. I don't read many opinions. I am sure it is a difficult programming task. But the current system is very modal (initial track creation mode, 2nd track editing mode), and not intuitive, compared to website track editing. The only way for me to use offline at present is to be very careful to add each important waypoint into initial track, then if bad route calculated, delete the last point immediately, and try again, until all completed for saving. MapFactor for example have modeless system - tap point > Set as Origin, tap another point > Set as Destination, go.
from Tools button > Edit location > it displays
Hi Menion, I already experimented with what you suggest but it doesn't really help. I still can't find the "Insert point" like in the gynta AVI. Two points:
1) Because there are so many hidden points in a BRouter or GraphHopper track, moving or deleting those points to alter a track is an endless task. It simply doesn't work at present, compared to other apps like MapFactor Navigator or Sygic. With Sygic I can drag the track to a new point and the whole track is recomputed, just like the online http://brouter.de/brouter-web/.
2) When I do move or delete points there is no auto recalculation using the Compute Source anyway, only a direct line between the remaining points.
It will be interesting to hear how other users like the offline track editing. I don't read many opinions. I am sure it is a difficult programming task. But the current system is very modal (initial track creation mode, 2nd track editing mode), and not intuitive, compared to website track editing. The only way for me to use offline at present is to be very careful to add each important waypoint into initial track, then if bad route calculated, delete the last point immediately, and try again, until all completed for saving. MapFactor for example have modeless system - tap point > Set as Origin, tap another point > Set as Destination, go.
from Tools button > Edit location > it displays
there is no “insert point“
read my post from yesterday please
there is no “insert point“
read my post from yesterday please
Same with me in new version: in modifying mode, when selecting a point, there is no item "insert" in the menu at the bottom nor in the pop up menu ("right arrow")
Same with me in new version: in modifying mode, when selecting a point, there is no item "insert" in the menu at the bottom nor in the pop up menu ("right arrow")
Hmm as gynta wrote, there is no "insert point" button :).
Please check this nice video example from gynta: http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4396.0;attach=2918 , mayb it should help
Hmm as gynta wrote, there is no "insert point" button :).
Please check this nice video example from gynta: http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4396.0;attach=2918 , mayb it should help
Got it,, thanks! For me, it's not intuitive to use "modify point" to add new additional points (I was afraid to inadvertently modify the position of the selected point).
Got it,, thanks! For me, it's not intuitive to use "modify point" to add new additional points (I was afraid to inadvertently modify the position of the selected point).
it is “edit location“
and you are right it is not clearly now.
“edit or add points“ better?
it is “edit location“
and you are right it is not clearly now.
“edit or add points“ better?
Sorry, it took me a while to realize there have been 2 demo AVI's on this topic. And it all looks pretty simple in the AVI with a mouse, but using a fat finger and a small screen, and with popup labels getting in the way, I find dragging the track points very difficult. And with hidden BRouter points, mostly not useful.
Menion said on 3/3/2015 - "You are correct, I completely forget on these waypoints. Oki, I think
they simply should be removed when underlaying trackpoint change." - was this incorporated into 3.7.0 or am I missing the point?
Sorry, it took me a while to realize there have been 2 demo AVI's on this topic. And it all looks pretty simple in the AVI with a mouse, but using a fat finger and a small screen, and with popup labels getting in the way, I find dragging the track points very difficult. And with hidden BRouter points, mostly not useful.
Menion said on 3/3/2015 - "You are correct, I completely forget on these waypoints. Oki, I think
they simply should be removed when underlaying trackpoint change." - was this incorporated into 3.7.0 or am I missing the point?
Hello Anrewwell...
With my fat fingers i'm also unable to write text messages but I have no problems to move points.
So, i have a short new clip for you again - created on my old small S2 (see attachement)
BRouter or any navigation, re-routing-calculation was not a part of my idea.
I only want simple edit a small amount of points inside a trackline and this works fine now
because for more complex work on track i use a better track editor on PC.
If it's a primary problem, idea, feature request,... please feel free to create a new idea or a problem report.
Thanks for understanding :)
Hello Anrewwell...
With my fat fingers i'm also unable to write text messages but I have no problems to move points.
So, i have a short new clip for you again - created on my old small S2 (see attachement)
BRouter or any navigation, re-routing-calculation was not a part of my idea.
I only want simple edit a small amount of points inside a trackline and this works fine now
because for more complex work on track i use a better track editor on PC.
If it's a primary problem, idea, feature request,... please feel free to create a new idea or a problem report.
Thanks for understanding :)
Thanks gynta for the new video.
First some general comments...
I disagree with text message - the virtual keys are large and don't overlap, much easier to tap correct key than edit Locus track.
My misunderstanding was that this new feature is for "simple edit of a small amount of points" rather than more overall complex work. When I am cycle touring, and offline, I don't have a PC, and want a single app for preparation or modification of a track. I created one topic here but no comments, so I guess no one else views this as a problem, Too bad for me.
Again I compare the UX for Locus track creation and editing with online http://brouter.de/brouter-web/ as an example. I also suggest other apps have more intuitive ways of performing this task.
And some specific comments...
A) I made one track, just single start/ end point, no compute source. When I perform - select > Edit Map > Tools > Edit Location I get brief popup message "Invalid shape (geometry) of defined item" - why?
B) When I perform "tap on track > tap Edit Map", why not display all point icons on the track already so that any point can now be moved or deleting immediately? That way "Tools > Edit Location" is not needed, and makes editing much faster and intuitive?
C) It doesn't seem possible to move the first or last point on a track?
D) Maybe disable "Enable address search" while in track edit mode - sometimes I think I perform long tap on track point, but instead a popup label for address search is displayed. Then there is no way to hide this label, and is right next to the track point I wanted to move or delete.
Thanks gynta for the new video.
First some general comments...
I disagree with text message - the virtual keys are large and don't overlap, much easier to tap correct key than edit Locus track.
My misunderstanding was that this new feature is for "simple edit of a small amount of points" rather than more overall complex work. When I am cycle touring, and offline, I don't have a PC, and want a single app for preparation or modification of a track. I created one topic here but no comments, so I guess no one else views this as a problem, Too bad for me.
Again I compare the UX for Locus track creation and editing with online http://brouter.de/brouter-web/ as an example. I also suggest other apps have more intuitive ways of performing this task.
And some specific comments...
A) I made one track, just single start/ end point, no compute source. When I perform - select > Edit Map > Tools > Edit Location I get brief popup message "Invalid shape (geometry) of defined item" - why?
B) When I perform "tap on track > tap Edit Map", why not display all point icons on the track already so that any point can now be moved or deleting immediately? That way "Tools > Edit Location" is not needed, and makes editing much faster and intuitive?
C) It doesn't seem possible to move the first or last point on a track?
D) Maybe disable "Enable address search" while in track edit mode - sometimes I think I perform long tap on track point, but instead a popup label for address search is displayed. Then there is no way to hide this label, and is right next to the track point I wanted to move or delete.
Principally, I am happy that Locus offers some editing functionality, but I accept that it's not focused on that and therefore it will never be as good as other, dedicated apps.
I also like that the new functionality is the same as the one for editing an area for map downloading - I'm all about consistency ;)
What's bothering me most right now is that it's tedious to delete a section of a track, as this is what happens most often when recording (you're resting for a while and forget to pause the recording, and now the GPS creates a bunch of more or less exact points while in fact you're stationary). But Menion is aware of this and perhaps he will find a solution (http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=4396.msg35147#msg35147).
I have to agree with Andrew on D) - it's endlessly annoying if you long-tap but don't hit a point and get an address search pop-up instead.
I don't see the problem with C) - I had no problem to move first/last point. However, adding a point before first/last point, that is not directly possible - you'd have to move the first/last and then add one in between where the old first/last point was - not very exact...
Principally, I am happy that Locus offers some editing functionality, but I accept that it's not focused on that and therefore it will never be as good as other, dedicated apps.
I also like that the new functionality is the same as the one for editing an area for map downloading - I'm all about consistency ;)
What's bothering me most right now is that it's tedious to delete a section of a track, as this is what happens most often when recording (you're resting for a while and forget to pause the recording, and now the GPS creates a bunch of more or less exact points while in fact you're stationary). But Menion is aware of this and perhaps he will find a solution (http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=4396.msg35147#msg35147).
I have to agree with Andrew on D) - it's endlessly annoying if you long-tap but don't hit a point and get an address search pop-up instead.
I don't see the problem with C) - I had no problem to move first/last point. However, adding a point before first/last point, that is not directly possible - you'd have to move the first/last and then add one in between where the old first/last point was - not very exact...
Ingo said "and therefore it will never be as good as other, dedicated apps" - I find Locus better than other competing Android GPS apps for nearly every function, so why not best for offline route/ track editing too? One other major function to improve is offline address search (planned).
Ingo said "and therefore it will never be as good as other, dedicated apps" - I find Locus better than other competing Android GPS apps for nearly every function, so why not best for offline route/ track editing too? One other major function to improve is offline address search (planned).
Hi Ingo
>"...it's tedious to delete a section of a track..."
I agree! ...but that's also not the point of this Idea, called "Edit trackpoint -> insert new points in a row"
If you create a new idea like "Edit trackpoint -> delete points in a row" - I will vote :D
Hi Ingo
>"...it's tedious to delete a section of a track..."
I agree! ...but that's also not the point of this Idea, called "Edit trackpoint -> insert new points in a row"
If you create a new idea like "Edit trackpoint -> delete points in a row" - I will vote :D
Hello gynta,
may I ask you (and others as well) for your opinion? Is currently implementation fine, usable and satisfy your needs for this kind of task (inserting more points in row)?
Hello gynta,
may I ask you (and others as well) for your opinion? Is currently implementation fine, usable and satisfy your needs for this kind of task (inserting more points in row)?
It works and i see my idea as implemented.
Locus never should work as an high-end track editor.
So I'm happy with this solution. ...after 3 years ago :)
thank you
It works and i see my idea as implemented.
Locus never should work as an high-end track editor.
So I'm happy with this solution. ...after 3 years ago :)
thank you
Fine, thanks for confirmation. Well three years isn't too bad :)
Fine, thanks for confirmation. Well three years isn't too bad :)
You are probably tired of my comments on this subject but Menion asked for opinions so...
@gynta >Locus never should work as an high-end track editor
Locus is already the best in most areas, so why not a better track editor too? It is SO close.
My "use-case" is where I have A) phone B) offline vector map, no data connection C) 10 to 100km daily track creation D) using BRouter because GraphHopper doesn't allow scripting of preferences E) no compue instructions F) may need to alter/ edit track (offline) during the day as circumstances change.
Summary:
1) When I edit an existing track, most track points (via points or shaping points?) are hidden. I can use the Left/ Right buttons to move among them, but if I want to move a visible point a long distance away, it is useless because all the hidden points also have to be deleted. Unfortunately it is easier to "start from scratch" rather than editing the existing track.
2) If 1) above is fixed, BRouter (Compute Source) is only used for track creation, not when track editing. So the track is now just straight lines instead of following a new route/ roads, so if the visible point is moved a long distance away,, the move is still useless. I can (now) insert my own points to help, but this is what the compute source is for. This is really the popular rubber band topic.
At present if the existing track needs editing, it is just easier to create a new track with a few different points rather than attempting to edit the existing track.
3) The interface seems complex to me - two different modes - A) create, B) edit - could be combined into one. I had some other suggestions here but no comments, so maybe I am the only one with these issues.
I would be very interested to read and learn how other cycle tourists plan their daily tracks with my offline "use-case".
You are probably tired of my comments on this subject but Menion asked for opinions so...
@gynta >Locus never should work as an high-end track editor
Locus is already the best in most areas, so why not a better track editor too? It is SO close.
My "use-case" is where I have A) phone B) offline vector map, no data connection C) 10 to 100km daily track creation D) using BRouter because GraphHopper doesn't allow scripting of preferences E) no compue instructions F) may need to alter/ edit track (offline) during the day as circumstances change.
Summary:
1) When I edit an existing track, most track points (via points or shaping points?) are hidden. I can use the Left/ Right buttons to move among them, but if I want to move a visible point a long distance away, it is useless because all the hidden points also have to be deleted. Unfortunately it is easier to "start from scratch" rather than editing the existing track.
2) If 1) above is fixed, BRouter (Compute Source) is only used for track creation, not when track editing. So the track is now just straight lines instead of following a new route/ roads, so if the visible point is moved a long distance away,, the move is still useless. I can (now) insert my own points to help, but this is what the compute source is for. This is really the popular rubber band topic.
At present if the existing track needs editing, it is just easier to create a new track with a few different points rather than attempting to edit the existing track.
3) The interface seems complex to me - two different modes - A) create, B) edit - could be combined into one. I had some other suggestions here but no comments, so maybe I am the only one with these issues.
I would be very interested to read and learn how other cycle tourists plan their daily tracks with my offline "use-case".
Firstly thanks for your patience and deep engagement with your customer base. Bravo.
In this screen cap I have created an example track using BRouter + no compute instructions. The whole track is about 40km long. I just added one start and one end point, no others. But just in the first 1.5km as can be seen from the popup point label, there are 21 hidden precomputed points from my green start point that BRouter has created. Of course these points are hidden, and are necessary so the track follows the physical road, no problems so far...
If I now want to edit this track to take an alternative route using a different road, there are (as you also say) 100's of precomputed points that must be deleted. Most are hidden, some at road junctions are visible. It is just not practical/ intuitive; and in track editing mode the compute source is no longer used, so I must insert/ move each point to follow a road myself. It is quicker to delete the whole track, and start again.
By contrast, editing a track using an online website such as http://brouter.de/brouter-web/ is fast and intuitive. If I move a point that is half way along the track, all the relevant hidden precomputed points are automatically deleted, and recalculated - the relevant section of track is rubber banded. The user is not expected to delete all the hidden precomputed points because they are just for shaping the track.
This could also be possible in Locus. It does not depend on an accurate mouse or even change of existing user interface. The main change would require that Locus make a distinction between A) points that a user has added to a track, and B) precomputed (compute source) points. If the user deletes/ moves a "user point" then all precomputed points between the user point on each side of that point are deleted, and the compute source recalculates those points (rubber banding). If the user moves a precomputed point then the point becomes a "user point". If the user adds/ inserts a point it is always a "user point". If/ when the track is saved to GPX only the "user points" are saved. If/ when the GPX is loaded and then displayed, the compute source will need to recalculate all points between "user points".
Once this step is implemented, the current "add new track" mode, and subsequent "track edit" mode, could be combined and simplified into a single unified mode.
Firstly thanks for your patience and deep engagement with your customer base. Bravo.
In this screen cap I have created an example track using BRouter + no compute instructions. The whole track is about 40km long. I just added one start and one end point, no others. But just in the first 1.5km as can be seen from the popup point label, there are 21 hidden precomputed points from my green start point that BRouter has created. Of course these points are hidden, and are necessary so the track follows the physical road, no problems so far...
If I now want to edit this track to take an alternative route using a different road, there are (as you also say) 100's of precomputed points that must be deleted. Most are hidden, some at road junctions are visible. It is just not practical/ intuitive; and in track editing mode the compute source is no longer used, so I must insert/ move each point to follow a road myself. It is quicker to delete the whole track, and start again.
By contrast, editing a track using an online website such as http://brouter.de/brouter-web/ is fast and intuitive. If I move a point that is half way along the track, all the relevant hidden precomputed points are automatically deleted, and recalculated - the relevant section of track is rubber banded. The user is not expected to delete all the hidden precomputed points because they are just for shaping the track.
This could also be possible in Locus. It does not depend on an accurate mouse or even change of existing user interface. The main change would require that Locus make a distinction between A) points that a user has added to a track, and B) precomputed (compute source) points. If the user deletes/ moves a "user point" then all precomputed points between the user point on each side of that point are deleted, and the compute source recalculates those points (rubber banding). If the user moves a precomputed point then the point becomes a "user point". If the user adds/ inserts a point it is always a "user point". If/ when the track is saved to GPX only the "user points" are saved. If/ when the GPX is loaded and then displayed, the compute source will need to recalculate all points between "user points".
Once this step is implemented, the current "add new track" mode, and subsequent "track edit" mode, could be combined and simplified into a single unified mode.
Hi, I am a new user of Locus and I am going through options. The editing of route could be improved. When the route is already made the modifications via "insert/edit trackpoint" is not useful. It connects new points with a straight line instead of recomputing a part of a track with new constraints. Thus I support comments from Andrew about that.
Hi, I am a new user of Locus and I am going through options. The editing of route could be improved. When the route is already made the modifications via "insert/edit trackpoint" is not useful. It connects new points with a straight line instead of recomputing a part of a track with new constraints. Thus I support comments from Andrew about that.
Guys, (mainly Andrew), absolutely agree. But here is also the problem - "the current "add new track" mode, and subsequent "track edit" mode, could be combined and simplified into a single unified mode". Someone have to do it ...
I think that this request is already created here: http://help.locusmap.eu/topic/rubberband_route_planning
Guys, (mainly Andrew), absolutely agree. But here is also the problem - "the current "add new track" mode, and subsequent "track edit" mode, could be combined and simplified into a single unified mode". Someone have to do it ...
I think that this request is already created here: http://help.locusmap.eu/topic/rubberband_route_planning
Replies have been locked on this page!