Better world base map

Michael Bechtold shared this idea 2 years ago
In Progress

With a vector map of about 200 MB you can deliver a high quality overview feature up to about zoom level 10 (see your competitor OsmAnd). Today Locus is slow and cumbersome at this level.

Is that relevant ? Well, I sense Locus is proud to be used around the world (trips in South America, through Iran etc.

And I consider it healthy to have a horizon beyond "How do I squeeze another milli-second in the next lap, to the next turn and alike ..." (I loved your remark, gynta !)

So: the proposal is to create a quality world map - and to give the user control when to switch from world map to detail vector map. (There are people who would trade detail for speed even at level 12, i.e. simply magnify, even without more detail from world map.)

Comments (24)

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Hi,


I can understand you. Anyway the basic idea was to create small map which anybody can download for free. There is also a technical limitation at this moment. World map is generated in different way than standard vector maps. For this reason is complicated to create world map for zoom-levels (9-10) and preserve the speed and simplicity.

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OsmAnd can ...

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Hi Petr,

I put some comparison screenshots into a Dropbox folder:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bnyvt73pbwahh0t/AACHVkHnYQTZdItBj47bHGrga?dl=0


It also contains one screenshot where the world map goes amok, as you

can see.

That effect only came in the 3.7 or 3.8 release, not before.


TXs and kind regards

Michael

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Hi Petr,

did you have a chance to look into the images ?

Cheers

Michael

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Hi Michael,

ohh I'm sorry. Issue will be fixed in next version of Locus app.

Thank you for report!

Petr

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Hi Petr, what is the difference in map generating you mention above ?

And I can not understand whatsover, why level 9 and 10 would not be doable. If it is somewhat slower - so be it. ANYthing is better than the crappy performance today.

Going up one level typically about quadrupels the size of the file (that is true for images, and is at least an estimate for vector approach). That would mean you would have 40 MB for Level 9 and 160 MB for level 10. Still very handy.

One other idea just came: once you have level 10 at hand efficiently, I would offer the user two ways to zoom in and out: one is the traditional +/- function as today, the other is to simply scale the world map to the desired level. This helps also helps performance at levels up to 13 or so with reasonable deatils.

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Hello Michael,

let me explain it. The world map is generated from different data then standard vector maps. The data for wold map are very generalized for global world "zoom-level". For this reason are not data suitable for zoom-level > 9 because are not so detailed. On the other hand current vector maps in level 9-10 are generated from very detailed OSM data. OSM data are generalized but the generalization is not so good and this is reason why maps are slower. So our task for the future is to prepare generalized data that can be used for creation good locking and quick maps for zooms 9-10.

Thanks for understanding

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Hello Petr, I understand the the challenges your describe.


In addition, bitmap renditions are nicer in many cases - and faster, and manyfold, according to user taste.

So,

again, leaving users with a CHOICE is the best way. And it is trivial

to implement a switch to a bitmap file for lower zoom levels. A file path (for sqlite DB), and the threshold zoom level, and maybe a resolution factor.

1.4 GB gives you zoom level 10 for the whole world, the one I did myself quite a while ago. And there may be smarter bitmap renditions out there.

http://www.openandromaps.org/en/downloads/general-maps provides a WorldOSM_Locus DB with 450 MB, up to zoom level 9. Good viewing with a 200% and 400% map resolution increase. Which in fact gives you level 10 or 11 feeling (not the details, of course, but that is not the purpose anyway).

So why bother with higher level vector optimization, if a custom switch to an sqlite in user hands gives all you need, with reasonable map size ??

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I agree that vector maps in low zooms are both... super ugly and super slow. "Render optimizations" will never fix this. An automatic switch to (and back from) a user specified sqlite map would be very welcome.

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Superpointlesslypissugly, but Locus reality in 2016 :-(:

cab1de6960f4d4bad43844dfca9bfa60

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I can really understand that vector maps in level 10 are not usable. On other side I don't think that 1.4 GB sqlitedb is better solution. We definitely need simple "global" map but the vector is the way we should focus on not the sqlitedb. It is little bit complicated for us (as I wrote above) to create such vector map for this reason we always postpone it. However I need to reject idea about sqlitedb maps. I can not imagine that user needs to download 1GB map to get some global simple map...

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Hi Petr, as I wrote, my self made 1.4 GB sqlite is NOT the way I promote in the end.

Did you look into the 450 MB ZL 9 file I promoted in the link ?

It looks fine up to 400%, which is ZL 11.

And today everybody can afford a 450 MB map, if interested, easily.

So why would you fight dragon for man months, when a user friendly solution is maybe an hour or two of coding ??

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Hi Michael,

honestly even 450 MB is still too much. Current world vector map that is for levels 0- 8 has about 10MB. I have tos say that vector map works better on high resolution devices. I have also idea to add bathymetry to the ocean areas. Well I can understand you but I would rather fight with dragon and prepare usable vector map then offer large raster map...

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Petr, pls. consider users to be grown up.

If dragon fighting is your hobby - you are grown up, too, hence enjoy :-)

But PLEASE leave users a CHOICE. They can decide themselves how much SD space they want to spend for different maps (which will always be faster than vector), and which look and feel they prefer for those overview maps. Your slaughtered dragon being one of the options, of course. The current dragon is too alive and burns your customers !

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Choice (possibility to choose "base map" in Locus) in this case, is not on Petr (as creator of all maps and Store), but on me (as a creator of app itself). For now, I fully support Petr's decision and agree with it. For now, there is no need for extra discussion, sorry guys. I don't think that this topic is so hot, that needs immediate solution.

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I use a sqlitedb worldmap (source was OutdoorActive zoom level 0-7 - size was only 152MB)

Zoom 0-7 is absolutely ok for an overview. Unfortunately i can't use it together with my vector maps in a good working solution. So my wish was to use my own basemap in lower vector zoom levels.

Current solution looks so ...old school :) and it stucks in transition from normal to base vector map.

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Hi guys,

nice workaround with transparent map layer. Result? Generally little slower map and inability to use overlay for better usecase. All this to make vector maps faster?

In next (beta) version will be enable experimental settings (in settings > maps > offline maps > "World map"), where you may choose a global world map used for all vector maps. Only vector maps for now. I really tried to allow some global world map for all kind of maps, but seems to be quite complicated task, but I believe that main problem here are vector maps, so current solution should cover at least 95% of complains I believe.

Map needs to have available level 1 (main condition) and max used level will be 10. So for example map with zoom 2 - 6, can't be used. Map with zoom 0 - 12, will be used only as map 0 - 10. Level 1 is required to have really full world map, bottom limit 10 is to prevent "disabling" vector map in case of incorrectly generated world map.

Note: if you have some world maps with transparent zoom level 10, this zoom should be removed.

Looking forward to some positive feedback ;).

PS: thanks for a kick needed to implement it, goes to @Michael B.

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Thanks for your work on this. Unfortunately, from my experience, vector world maps are rather pointless. And I tried all of them. The only thing that really makes sense are pixel maps, at least from zoom 1 to 12/13. Too bad you couldn't make it work.


Another super-simple-to-implenent-idea for this would still be a min-zoom setting for overlay maps. We could then use any map we want and not bother with transparency hacks.

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Or look at this extreme beauty...

https://www.interkart.de/media/catalog/product/w/m/wm387_20m_world_env.jpg

... and then look at a "vector overview map" again without crying. Can you really do that :)?

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Hi joeloc,

Menion DID make it work. Did you try the new Beta ? You can add the pixel map you want for the lower levels. OK, Menion limited it to level 10, but that may be up to discussion easily, or a parameter in the config file for the geeks.

The new feature open up overlay maps for other uses, which is good, I think.


Did I miss a point ?

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yep, missunderstanding. New system is simple: use your favorite raster map (condition that map has to have zoom level 1 to appear in preferences) for zoom levels 0 up to 10, as a base world map for your vector (V3, V4) maps ;).

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Really glad to hear that. Apparently my google account lost beta status, so I couldn't try yet. The artificial limit to zoom 10 can hopefully go to config file for power users and map freaks? I eg wouldn't mind having a 4GB overview map. Memory is really cheap these days and I find vector rendering especially cumbersome in speed and prettyness around zooms 10/11/12.


Btw, just an idea: Maybe Locus can come with a (sufficiently nice) OSM online raster map as default configuration for overviews? And then on first start, ask the user if he wants to auto-download and cache that up to Zoom 10?


This way, even non-freakish users who don't play with settings would benefit from speedy and pretty overviews, way nicer than a vector thingy. Just requires finding a pretty OSM tile server who's license allows caching a little.

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Even if Petr is not fan of some overview map ( I'm not as well, anyway have to say that creating this support took me maybe one day, compare to crazy number of days (maybe weeks) necessary to make really fast universal world vector map ), I can more imagine to place one or two perfect world maps directly into Store for a download for free, and not to such bandwidth from any map server. This I believe is a way to go ...

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