Garmin IMG - better control of visible content (lines, objects)

Robin K shared this idea 2 years ago
Collecting votes

I would like to the following features added for Garmin/IMG maps.

1. Options to enable/disable all objects/lines on a map.

2. Options to change thickness of lines (roads, trails, etc).

3. Options to set custom color for lines (roads, trails, etc).

Thank you!

Comments (72)

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Option to change linetype would be nice as well ... basically it would be nice to accept .typ configuration files. Thanks.

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I was unaware of .typ files but after reading up on is that sounds good too although certainly for more advanced users. You should start another thread for the .typ file support so people can vote.

Update: I guess I'm not sure if a different topic should be created as the title of my topic was changed to be more general...

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To be honest Garmin as a company is a pure evil..overpriced gadgets with so called "Lifetime map update support" which means until we decide to quit support your gadget (usualy 2-3 years after release). Lame GUI, path calculating algorithm in car nav is a joke in comparison with Sygic, TomTom etc. Garmin Topo map is for kids and miles behind of a quality 2D offline map from free MOBAC mapsources or you can buy a decent outdoor map for almost any country SHOCART, KOMPASS etc. Seriously Garmin Topo is for person who is so lazy or even cant read outdoor maps...thats the fact. And I know why Locus has only 5% of US users...locus has more than 4 buttons and you need to read/learn a bit about how to set it up with offline maps...its a way too much effort for a common yankee...I wouldn't bother with support of these dinosaurs (Garmin users, IMG format) at all. Maybe a huge market but I really dont want Locus to become a tool designed just to display an overpriced non-detailed obsolete IMG vector map with connection to a twitter account. Leave this to the iphone developers pls and focus on more useful functions for us :) thx!

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'so mean hihi

but on the other hand..

More supported map types - more user - more money - Asamm Software, s. r. o will grow up.

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Wow, well I'm a bit speechless about your rant! Funny how you make claims about Americans yet we have many of the richest technology companies in the world. I don't want to get into an online war or words but your comments are out of line and have no place on this forum, you for that matter too with that attitude.

It's not like Locus is going to "remove" functionally to improve IMG support. The reality is that Garmin maps are in industry standard because Garmin are so popular, like it or not. Because of this so many organizations create their custom maps in IMG format because they know that will provide the largest device support.

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Ladislav show me who wants to use maps produced by Garmin? We are talking about maps in img format which could be made from other than Garmin sources. I have here in Poland a vector map which has more details than 1:25000 paper maps and it takes only 500MB of space. Whole country. Raster takes many GB. I also create vector maps for my purpose in img. Most positive of garmin family is img format which works in all devices - car, bike, marine and handhelds for walkers. Show me TomTom topo maps please :-)

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Robin K, I TOTALLY AGREE on your last post. :)

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Garmin is so "popular" because they caught the car nav business at the times when no one could even think that a good navigation could be just a piece of software in a cellphone. So trillions of people bought this overpriced boxes with overpriced maps. We all here know that those times are gone but Garmin is still milking all those gaffers that thinks a cellphone is for calls/texting only or they just simply can't say farewell to their magic box which cost them an arm and a leg. I've tried tons of gps soft and from the big players on the market - Garmin is the worst almost in everything. As far as I know Locus developers have a limited amount of time for developing their software and I personally think there is a lot of other good ideas how to improve Locus and supporting the old-timers is not one of them. It's time to move on boys ;)

To your speechless comment: In general the american market will be always focused on simplicity instead of more complex/useful solutions. Steve Jobs knew it and that's why his products infested brains of so many yankees :).

Have a nice day gaffers ;)

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Garmin was popular way before there were auto navigation gps units and well before smartphones...

This has NOTHING to do with supporting old timers! This is about supporting industry standard maps.

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BTW... Google/Android is also a USA product. Funny how you picked iphone/apple/steve jobs as your example.

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Guys guys, I think we should end this discussion right now. As Robin wrote, this idea (generally all around IMG + Locus) is about supporting existing IMG format. Nothing more. It has nothing to do with Garmin. I'm also not a fan of this company, I've never used single device from them, but it's really out of this topic.

So generally, basic functionality is already done.

Idea here is about investing quite a lot of time, to extended possibilities of styling visible IMG maps. Vote + or -, but discussion if Garmin company is + or - do not belongs here. Thanks!

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I have been waiting and watching patiently for someone to come up with a real alternative to Garmin hardware and software. Garmin has been the best for a long time for cyclist, motorcyclists and people who are really interested in creating detailed routes before setting off on their journey. Although they have been the best there is massive room for improvement and there has been a lot of frustration, for me especially on their Base Camp software.

I think its impressive that a relatively small team, such as your`s is offering such a customisable product. A lot of that is due to listening to the market, something Garmin has not been doing, too much money spent in all the wrong places, what a waste. I think any advance locus makes in being able to read these very prevalent IMG files brings them one step closer to attracting the early adopters from the cycling and motorcycling community. If they like it, then the rest of the community will follow in droves.

I too am frustrated with the offering from Garmin, but love the widely available maps, therefore I vote yes to any progress towards good software that can read these maps. I hope to see one day a product like yours that can even accept / sell or license companies like Navtec /Here maps (Map provider to Garmin in many countries). That would be a match made in heaven. Until the day when OSM maps become the best of course! That will be even better!!

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I ride motorcycles, and use Locus for my bike on my phone almost exclusively. Yes I have a car but dont use it.

I like to map out rides that I am going to take. Right now I use Furkot to do that. They have added a curvy roads function which works very well.

I use them to map out the route, Export it as a Garmin type gpx file and then import into Locus.

There are a few issues with this but so far it is the best I have found.

I HOPE they stay with it and keep developing. I have not use nor money for Garmin products or maps.

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Here's an example of the very same map data file (a Garmin .img) on Oruxmaps and on Locus. There are two major problems with Locus: missing markings and colours.

Did I understand correctly that the point presented in this idea "Options to enable/disable all objects/lines on a map." would be the answer to the former? An example would be those little X-markings that can be seen in the Orux version; they're road blocks that prevent passage to those roads.

For those interested: the examples show data from the Topographic Database by the National Land Survey of Finland.

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I would like to add a reason why Locus Map should enable as much functinality as possible for Garmin maps.

As I teach using Locus for various audiences I got aware of truck drivers,. Their apps lack information about street limitations for their trucks, if they don't use a specialised app for trucks. Actually there is a OSM project called OSM Transport Map, to address this. The only format they release maps in is Garmin img. While I can load that image into Locus Map Pro, I can't see the traffic signs, height and weight limits etc. which you could see on a Garmin device and which the routing enginge uses for route calculation. I consider the latter as not so important, but seeing the signs would be great and would turn attraction from other users to Locus Map Pro.

From time to time I see maps which are in the Garmin format. Maybe its worth to think about invreasing the functinality, to makes these maps usable.

Cheers

AWo

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This is pretty much a joke at this point. Menion can't see beyond his vision and fails to acknowledge the importance of IMG maps. I wouldn't doubt he still is concerned about legal issues despite the fact that the IMG container is not owned by Garmin and they have no rights to prevent any app from reading non-copyrighted IMG maps. I really had high hopes for this for a long time but instead of improving real/useful functionality (IMG maps) Locus keeps re-doing interface/gui layout and functionality which is unnecessary. I still use Locus but it has become a secondary option and I've stopped recommending it to people. Don't get your hopes up!

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@Andreas Woithon, thank you for your opinion!

@Robin K. ... Menion see beyond his vision (btw. what is my vision I should not see beyond??) and he is also not stuck on legal problems. Solution that is currently in Locus Map is based on public library http://websites.milonic.com/jgarminimg.sourceforge.net/ . Without a lot of work, it is not possible to display maps better then now. So this idea is not about one/two evening of work, it's about at least three months of full time work to create working system for Garmin themes etc. etc. And this is the problem ... at least for me now, sorry.

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Menion,As I understand it's an open source library so then then the source is available. It should be easy enough to gradually tweak and improve IMG support having the source. In fact in the past you had asked for some specifics to improve IMG support and now a year later nothing more has been done. Your excuse it likely that it has not received enough votes which is just dumb because the only people on the forum who vote are the hardcore users. It's the everyday people that hike, bike, snowmobile, ride motorcycle, etc that need this not the hardcore geeks hanging out on the forum voting. There are so many unnecessary changes in Locus that have clearly consumed a ton of time yet one of the most common offline map types still has very limited and in most cases unusable support and this is because of your "vision"... As I have noted in the past anyone who publishes a public map for something likely published in a IMG format because Garmins are so popular yet one of the best smartphone mapping apps continues to refuse to embrace the format. It's just really sad!!

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Oh, to answer your question... "btw. what is my vision I should not see beyond?" Your vision is that IMG format is not something you would use and therefore not important. I guarantee if IMG was important to you it would have been implemented a long time ago and would probably be incredibly flexible and powerful because it's very clear that what is within your vision you go all out and beyond expectations....

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Hello Robin,

this is correct deduction as I usually do final decisions what will be implemented. Unfortunately as You wrote, IMG is not so important to me and also to rest of team behind Locus Map.

Options your request in this "idea" are doable, not impossible.

Main problem with IMG in Locus and as well with open source library Locus Map use, is that it do not support themes for a maps. And this is major work that I'm not still convinced that I want's to do.

So what I may do, is hardcoded styles for all lines, points ... as is now. Well, with some modifications possible over some config file, or when I close both eyes, with few options directly in Locus Map settings. Will this be enough? Probably not for tasks that mentioned Andreas above. And for others?

I expect negative answer ... I expect that all wants to use maps together with *.typ files that define style of maps. And this is my main problem, why better implementation of IMG format is stuck. Such tasks will need lot of time, which I'm little short no matter how long I sit behind desk ...

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Menion,

All I have ever asked for is continued progress and improvement of the IMG format. I and anyone else will be happy to get what we can because the alternative is effectively unusable. To be completely honest I am hoping that once you dig in and become more familiar with IMG format that you continue to improve the functionality and customization capabilities. I've been a long time user of Lucas and understand that you and your team are incredibly capable and produce amazing results when you *want to*. I wish I could figure out a way to help you understand the importance of IMG maps for standard consumers. From my experience IMG is by far the most popular format used to delivery offline maps since Garmin GPS units are so popular. You could be opening the door for an entirely new scope of users by having good and thorough IMG support in Locus. To be fair that will likely take a lot more effort then you are willing to do now but if the first steps/improvements are not taking the latter will never get done.

Imagine if Locus had full and complete support for IMG maps where a user can fully customize the layout. Furthermore, img files could be associated the Locus so when a user download it from the web to their Android phone/tablet it automatically opens Locus and prompts to import and display the map. If you ever get to this point and advertise this functionality I guarantee you would see additional sales....

I personally would not be against making this an addon that costs extra but that would likely not be in line with increased overall sales of Locus.

None the less I hope you will take another look at IMG and consider making it a high priority. No one is expecting everything at once but if we can keep improving over time it would satisfy a lot of people.

Thank you!

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Even I couldn't said it better.. :)

img maps are wide spread because Garmin is still number one in number/quality of units

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But OSM is the future.

I do know of some quality IMG-format non-DRM'd map sets from my Garmin days (Ibycus, Malsing / MalFreeMaps, and Proyecto Mapear come to mind), but nowadays? I'd be surprised if the OSM equivalents aren't better now, and I'll always be looking at OSM first.

My Garmin is covered in dust on a shelf.

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Viajero - You must be joking, right? In a quick search of public websites offering GPS downloads not one has an OSM option but they all have IMG, GPX, and some offer a KMZ. Although smartphones do work really good with the larger screens the reality is when it comes to a lot of outdoor sports the serious people want rugged, reliable, and dedicated GPS devices because GPS failure is not an option. The reality is that different people have different needs and Locus is neglecting a huge scope of users because it effetively dos not support IMG maps.

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I think the vote count is misleading, a proper alternative to garmin GPS units would be a BIG deal. As good as openandromap, OSM and the like are for general use, the vast majority of pro trail\topo\specific use maps are sold in IMG. Locus already leaves pretty much every other GPS software or garmin units in the dust in my opinion, only thing garmin still has is their maps, and the routing that goes with them.

I undertand this is a major thing to implement, but it would really put Locus in a class of its own, and finally provide an alternative to garmin for a LOT of people, that probably don't even give Locus a second look because the maps are just not available.

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It would be nice if there is a way to use Locus API to write an addon or helper software to implement that improvements in IMG maps. I think many opensource developers would be happy to work on this addon ( including me). I just dont know much about how to write an addon yet and if Locus has all the necessary API for that.

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I read this thread with interest because I had no idea there were Garmin maps of such quality that people would be pressuring Menion to improve support for them. This is news to me!

I hike in the northeastern US and critical reviews of Garmin's TOPO US 24K Northeast indicate the maps are years out of date (see amazon.com). If all you want are contours and major roads, you'll be fine otherwise you may be disappointed with your US$99 purchase. They're not much better than the USGS 7.5' TOPO maps and those are decades out of date. In my experience, if you want accurate trails (in the Northeast US) you'll do better with OpenStreetMap (OSM) or a competitor's product.

I do use Garmin's Basecamp so naturally I need maps in IMG format on my PC. I turn to https://www.gpsfiledepot.com/ and download a free map of the northeastern US. Alternately, I can get the OSM map in IMG format from here: http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/ Of course, loading these non-Garmin IMG files into Basecamp requires some gymnastics (using defunct software utilities from dubious sources) ... so it's not for everyone.

I also own a Garmin Rino 530 HCx which has been my "workhorse" for off-trail navigation. It contains a free map version of upstate New York. Since I use it off-trail, the map's lack of (accurate) trails isn't a major drawback.

Perhaps Garmin's maps are accurate for other purposes (I noticed the reference above to truck drivers) or in other regions of the world. Maybe they will improve, for the NorthEastern US, now that Garmin has purchased Delorme. Therefore I'm neither upvoting or downvoting this suggestion because, honestly, I'm indifferent to it (IMG files aren't useful to me).

FWIW, the last time I checked (about 2 years ago), I learned Garmin never published the internal structure of IMG files. The format was reverse-engineered by someone (possibly by the author of cgpsmapper) except for how Garmin stores altitude data. Maybe that's changed by now.

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Taras we are not talking about the maps that come from Garmin directly, these are terrible, we are talking about third party maps made for garmin GPS units in IMG format. Important difference some of you seem to be misunderstanding.

Here's an example:

https://www.trakmaps.com/en/products/gps/atv/ontario/

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The trouble is, some (many?) such maps are DRM-protected. I'm pretty sure those would be incompatible with Locus.

The IMG maps of personal interest to me are in fact DRM'd, so this feature is of no use to me.

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Just as an example, here in Brazil there's a project called "Tracksource.org" that has IMHO the best map for our country and it has a huge amount of good information, as they collect information from collaborators since the early days of GPS. It's very actively maintained and best of all, free.

Unfortunately, the project is not open, so we can not use another map format like OSM with that data ( and they didn't plan to merge with OSM too).

When Locus supported IMG some time ago, even with no customization options, made very happy and I expect it keeps it at last the way it is, but would be very nice to have improvements.

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@maxb @jonathan araujo

Ah-hah! Thanks! That makes more sense to me.

This is all about third-party maps in Garmin's IMG format. Paid or free versions (like the ones I'm using).

It's still of minimal interest to me but I now have a better appreciation of the situation. Anyone who has traditionally used a Garmin device, and the maps compatible with the device (like my 530HCx), can view the map with their phone (in Locus Map). The request is to improve the map's presentation.

PS

Seeing that Menion has had over a year to consider this request (and give it a low priority). Perhaps the best solution is for someone to improve the existing open source IMG library (add all the features desired). This would reduce the amount of work for Menion and might give this request a higher priority. (Maybe)

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Unlocking is trivial, and should be legal in most countries, provided you bought the map. Plenty of already unlocked stuff around too (again the legal stuff).

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I've been a major driver in pushing for improved IMG maps in Garmin and it has nothing to do with Garmins maps but all the third party custom maps. In the US, if there is a custom map created for a trail system, it's most likely a IMG map with no other options available. Garmins are VERY popular in the US so anyone creating a custom trail map will likely use Garmin.

It's been months since the last time this surfaced and appears to be no additional effort to move forward with this which is really sad. I wish people wouldn't have such a closed mind..

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" In the US, if there is a custom map created for a trail system, it's most likely a IMG map with no other options available. Garmins are VERY popular in the US so anyone creating a custom trail map will likely use Garmin. "

Consider me the exception because I used OpenStreetMap (OSM). I frequently hike in New York state's Adirondack Park, specifically in the High Peaks region. Starting in May 2016, I recorded all my hikes and surveyed the location of major footbridges, campsites, lean-tos, privies, trail-registers, viewpoints, parking areas, etc and added them to OSM. To ensure accuracy, I used the combination of my recorded tracks, plus other people's tracks (Wikiloc, etc) plus Strava's Heat Map, to add new trails and modify existing ones.

The result is map data that is accessible to ANY mapping program that displays OSM. "Write once, read everywhere." My modifications appear in the standard OSM map and all its usual variants (OpenCycleMap, etc) as well as special derivations by third-parties like:

Thunder Forest Outdoors map http://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=44.15798,-73.95027&z=17&b=oo

Suunto Movescount map http://www.movescount.com/map?lat=44.15819298091799&lon=-73.95100909999763&zoom=17.16688014801247&activity=82&style=suunto-offroad

Gaia GPS https://www.gaiagps.com/map/?lat=44.1577&lon=-73.9518&zoom=17&layer=GaiaTopoRasterFeet

LoMaps and OpenAndroMaps

Basically, any mapping app that display raster or vector maps can display OSM. In addition, OSM's map data can be transformed into IMG format should one want to view it on a Garmin device.

BTW, Gaia GPS is one of the most popular mapping apps for iOS. Backcountry Navigator is the grand-daddy of mapping apps on Android. Both are developed in the USA. Neither supports IMG files.

https://help.gaiagps.com/hc/en-us/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&query=garmin+img

http://support.crittermap.com/hc/en-us/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&query=garmin+img

In contrast, your friendly Czech software developer has included the ability to use IMG files (just maybe not as flexibly as some would like to see). In light of this situation, I think it's quite understandable why he is reluctant to invest 3+ months of development effort into this suggestion. His competition doesn't even have the feature yet they have a loyal customer-base ... so the ability to read IMG files isn't a "killer" feature (i.e. a significant, competitive differentiator).

I do empathize with users who would like to see improvements. Therefore I suggest you either make the necessary enhancements to the open source library, to ease Menion's burden, or propose a business case detailing how he'll get a prompt return for his investment of 3+ months of development work.

I leave you with this Garmin-related blog post by Caltopo's Matt Jacobs: http://caltopo.blogspot.ca/2016/05/downloadable-garmin-gps-maps.html

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OSM is awesome, and in a perfect world everyone would be like you and me and upload their tracks online, but that's just not the reality of it, in part because Garmin is so ingrained.

Found your point about competition strange though, the fact that no one supports it very well is what would make it a killer feature, I don't think anyone can really dispute that Garmin has the lion's share of the GPS market, especially for these specific use cases we've been talking about.

In any case, I'm not sure we are achieving much by debating all this here, my original point was simply that the vote count is probably not really representative of the demand for this, since I doubt many who need img maps currently use Locus because of lack of proper support, and that there's a much bigger market out there.

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Locus shows maps of garmin images but it should be better , like for example in Oruxmaps.

I think, for a programmer it should be possible.

In the most south american countries there are groups which offer free maps for offroad, cities ...

with much more details like the original garmin maps. This maps are in img format and free for use.

Why garmin format? Because you can install on car gps or gps for outdoor from garmin.

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Make a special version with better IMG support and offer it in the playstore for $49 dollars.

So everybody get something. The programmer and the client.

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"In the most south american countries there are groups which offer free maps for offroad, cities ..."

Because not everybody lives in South America ;-)

Because it is very popular.

Because it would be a way to "move" people which stick to Garmin to LMP. They have the chance to see new things, without loosing their garmin maps.

Because the only free truck map I know was published in the Garmin format. You can load that in LMP, but it doesn't show the truck-relevant data.

Cheers

AWo

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I'm a visitor looking for an android app that will allow me to upload my garmin IMP files ;-) and this goes to the root of why I'm not looking at Locus- it's not supporting my needs. MaxB and Robin are dead nuts on it- you won't find us here (most likely) since your not supporting the ability to import the IMG Garmin files we purchase to use with this software it appears. Perhaps people expect someone to purchase the software and grow to like it. Not likely here in the US- we've purchased software and won't to still utilize what we've purchased- even if you geek types like your software better. It's not about the steak, but the sizzle. Trying to convince us that OSM maps are better is missing the point/sale. So, as they say, insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. I registered just to provide some input- most wouldn't bother but after trying to figure out the Oruxmaps I'm still looking...I'm not lazy but I have better things to do like surf, dive, hike, canyon and would rather spend my time or a few $$ on what works...

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I've moved on and stopped recommending Locus to people! It's pointless, Menion simply can't see beyond his narrow vision and just like you said most people will not go through the effort you did, they just move on and find something that fits there needs. Pretty sad cause otherwise Locus is a good mapping app. Oh well...

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I have been reading in this topic for a while, being interested in better possibilities to display IMG maps myself. Pro and con arguments are ok, but I think, comments on personal characteristics do not belong here. If Robin's comment was a singular "outbreak", he should appologize and the matter can be forgotten. Otherwise he won't be missed to much.

Where ever you move on to, Robin, give this a thought.

I could support a version mentioned above: Having payed for locus already twice because of a new phone) I would be prepared to pay for a special version or an add-on for IMG-maps. Maybe not $49, but once more the price of locus itself. Good work should be appreciated also by paying for it.

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There are people that work the Garmin maps. What do the different?

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Good day guys,

I'm reacting mainly on Robin's post, few hours ago.

When you search on Google Play for apps that support Garmin img files, you find: OruxMaps, Locus Map ... and ... and ... nothing? What an coincidence. Orux do it little better then Locus, so I suggest and recommend this app if you have desperate need to use IMG maps.

Why this? Why such worldwide used format, that everyone needs and wants to use, is used only in two apps on Android platform ( correct me if I am wrong )? Because there is no existing implementation of it's template files, because even implementation of IMG reader itself is done only partially and is not work perfectly, because creating of full support for this format ( we are talking about unlocked maps!!! ) is extra work on at least half an year if even simply possible!

I've spend on existing version many days so I know how complicated it is ( at least for me ). I was also search for exact specification of TYP file, but wasn't able to find any. So how you all simply imagine, that this may be done, when there are no available exact information about this format?

And if you think, that I can't see beyond my "my" vision ( vision you think I have ), then sorry, but you are wrong. I think that I'm clever enough to understand your needs here and got the point, but compare to you I see also technical solution, which is currently main breaking problem. Dot.

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Menion,

Firstly can I think you are probably correct about the long term future and OSM maps will hopefully dominate the market.. eventually

That said millions of people currently use IMG, purcase IMG or download it for free.

Only you know how difficult it is to implement IMG formats properly, and whether this is a suitable venture for you business considering the labour spent, but I think your market research has been too limited to make the optimum buisiness decision.

There is a great need for support for this format in market place that is currently not being fulfilled at least for the moment. The are millions of people with IMG files from all sorts of mapping products that want to use their phones instead of a Garmin device. I imagine your userbase is only in the 100s of thousand at present. Personally I see huge short term growth potential, but that is only an opinion I havent done detailed market research... If I was in your shoes and had your software ability I would do some proper market research and understand how many products are still in IMG format.

Also if I can say you have a great product and I will continue to support it for its OSM capavbilities .. unfortunately I still need to use my Garmin device so I am still looking for that magic app as many people are Im sure.

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Good day Dave,

thank you for your feedback. I'm well aware that Garmin maps has it's place even now, there is no need to convince me.

We made no market research about this topic, this is something that needs to be done. That's also reason why I'm not directly writing "yes, we do it", "no we don't do it". We will investigate this little more during following months ...

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One could make the function for img. Ask for extra money. I would pay 10 dollars if it goes.

Who would also pay something .... few or many?

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No useful TYP related informnation found in ANY of those ?

http://www.cferrero.net/maps/guide_to_TYPs.html

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mkgmap/help/TYP_files

http://www.pinns.co.uk/osm/styles.html

http://antonin.delpeuch.eu/openfietsmap-review-and-first-tweaks.html

I am not a Garmin user, but I hate undocumented formats. It seems some other folks have done some work already ...

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Nice pages, thanks. Unfortunately it looks same as on similar pages I've found > description of TYP file, but not directly binary specification of format that I need.

Anyway on first page (I didn't know before) seems to be some information about specific features in Garmin IMG maps and it's current color and style values that are used in Garmin itself, so at least something, thanks. I'll download it for later use if needed ...

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ok. There are some pc programs which support unlocked img files. So I thought it´s easy to get infos

and make some changes.

I am a programmer too, in your case I would disable garmin support in your app, because things you cant support or change only causing problems. Only my opinion. You are making a good job.

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It seems you already have an open source library to work on. That was created from reverse engineering so the hard work is really already done for you. And with that we do have basic support for IMG. You are a very bright developer and I know if you were truly interested in the IMG format we would already have an amazing support for it. That is what I mean about your "narrow" vision. Because IMG does not interest you, you are not willing to try to further improve the implementation. As with any technology, language, code, system, etc the first part is always the hardest but one you start understanding the basics the rest gets easier the more you know. I'm not naive to this as I'm a Senior Network Administrator and have written a lot of complicated scripts across many platforms over the years. I also work for a company that develops software so again not naive to the challenge.

One of my personal interests is home automation and I have over the years written remote control software that has run on various different devices and platforms. My most recent forte was to rewrite my remote software in HTML5 and javascript which I don't know much about. I figured it would take 6+ months to do this project and the start was a little rocky as I learned the ins and outs of HTML5 and javascript. Well I got over the hump in a couple weeks and started to become very productive in this project. I ended up finishing it in 6 weeks! Another project I took on was to built my own IR Emitters to replace a Global Cache iTach because they are expensive. So I started playing with Arduino micros computers. I had some IR libraries to work with but otherwise ended up building a dozen Arduino IR emitters from scratch. This included circuit boards, soldering, C++ coding, programming boards, etc but again I didn't give up because it was "hard" at first!

I know you are a far superior developer then I would ever dream of being. I was one of your first customers and have watched Locus grow over the years so I know what you are capable of. Honestly though there has been a lot of development work put into Locus that does not provide any new functionality but just updates the GUI and how things work. In some cases I wish I could go back to the older versions as some things just make it harder to use or more clicks to access something. My only point here is that there is a lot of time and effort going into stuff that just is not as important as IMG support. I know you feel otherwise but no all your users feel the same way.

IMG support is well overdue and you are simply struggling to get started because of the "narrow" vision and interest but I guarantee it would increase your sales because almost all custom maps in the US for trail systems are produced in IMG format because Garmins are so popular. This format is not going away anytime soon, at at least while Garmin is around and they are doing better then ever, recently buying Delorme.

You have on a couple occasion now said you would look into it or work on a few specific improvements then then 6+ months goes by and nothing! Then we end up back here in the same conversations over and over again, this is why I have lost hope. I really thing you need to open your eyes, widen your vision, and re-prioritize the development of GUI based improvments (its plenty good for now) and add some key functionality that is over due (IMG maps and device syncing).

The key things needed to improve IMG support are to customize the lines and objects by size, color, and visibility.

Sorry about the long novel... Thank you!

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I would also pay 50$ for a properly implemented garmin .img map

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Could it be an idea to invest more money and employ other programmers and sell a better locus version later on. Maybe locos maps ultra for 15 euro or dollar

Am 22.02.2017 11:20 vorm. schrieb "Locus Map" :

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I've suggested making IMG support a paid ad-on to the base product too. I would gladly pay extra for this functionality!

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I think Locus is by far the best android map app out there.....but I hardly ever use it because I cannot use my off-road maps from Backroad Mapbooks with it....I am stuck with my expensive and useless garmin device.....I would gladly pay to use it on my android devices.

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What's the reason for not being able to use the BRMB maps ?

  1. Because they're locked for use with Garmin devices only.
  2. Because they don't display map details correctly in Locus Map.

FWIW, BRMBNavigator is their Android app designed to work with their maps. They charge ~$1/month for each provincial map you view.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.backroad.navigator&hl=en

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BRMB are locked, DRM'd, so they wouldn't work anyway in Locus - unless you did some shady tricks to unlock them.

I own those maps for two provinces, and they were expensive. But I no longer care about them because OSM has grown in leaps and bounds. (In my own area, it's ME doing a lot of the improvement work to bring the free maps up to snuff.)

At this point, even if my copy of BRMB were unlocked, I don't think I'd bother with them. And I have no other maps from my IMG collection that I even bother to check when going someplace new; it's always a matter of loading up OSM, and I'm happy.

BTW, IMHO BRMB really needs to make their maps available directly in Locus (via the store, not broken .IMG), because their own app is a disaster.

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Garmin's IMG map format:

  • Proprietary to Garmin.
  • Undocumented.
  • No Garmin-approved API (Application Programming Interface).

All that's available to developers is an incomplete third-party API based on incomplete reverse-engineering of the IMG file format.

If you really want to see improved support for IMG files, login to SourceForge and take over the JGarminImgParser project (untouched since 2008): https://sourceforge.net/projects/jgarminimg/files/jgarminimg/

Make all the improvements you feel are needed to it and you'll be helping Menion to enhance Locus Map's support for IMG files.

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I would also like to pay extra when this feature comes. Garmin tickets are still important for the next few years. In 10 years OSM will be better and we will not need Garmin anymore.

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I would also pay 20 euros. Have so many good Garmin cards. If I have to buy all at compass again, I pay much more. And OSM is often not enough, there are still some remote paths.

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This is a good idea with the extra pay for this feature. Perhaps the support of the cards is now implemented. I am also willing to pay 15 euros.

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I'm sure that many people will pay extra for that function. I still need to use my Garmin GPS just because the IMG maps.

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Support for Garmin maps. Yes I also would pay for!

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I would also pay but 20 euros is too much. 8 euros is ok.

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It's the only chance to get the function. Because the effort is very large. But pay better than not at all. If the interest becomes larger, it may cost very little.

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I could imagine the following:

Have a plattform where costumers can vote on what is missing or what they would like to have.

Sum up the results, break them up into different project if necessary.

Calculate the cost for an external professional.

Make your ideas available on https://www.kickstarter.com/ or an other crowfunding plattform.

Make the ideas more public and add add add for it.

If you have enough interested people, go for it.

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Ok, then we wait more times Vote and look how much it will.

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Here we go again! Relying on the input of a select group of advanced users who use this forum which does not even come close to representing the real user base or potential user base!

I guess Locus will continue to implement worthless gui changes and other features that are voted on by the select group of people that participate in this forum that already own the app. If you guys had any real clue about marketing and feature improvements to drive sales you would implement real world features that truly expends the functionality is Locus. The US is one of the biggest smartphone markets yet it's been stated that the US is a very small percentage of Locus sales. Well since you can't seem to figure out why I'll provide you some insight... IMG/Garmn maps are VERY popular in the US and is your don't support the most common map format your are not going to increase your sales in the US...

So sad but after fighting for this for years and getting the same old stupid bs responses it really does not surprise me one bit...

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Robin, others,

firstly thanks for a feedback. I think that we already have enough information for some decision also thanks to survey we made in latest version. Btw. this survey told us, that around 8% of current users should be able to use Garmin IMG maps in Locus Map (because they know this format or even has some free maps downloaded). And yes, I know ... potential of new users...

Anyway I'm glad you consider all changed we made last months as "worthless UI changes". I see it in the same way. And well, I think I'll continue in this way in future, sorry ...

For me, since begin, main interest was satisfied existing users. I was never a businessman so "biggest market" was never a good enough reason for me to do some features. That's why we are, after all these years, just a tiny team and we also do not plan to change it dramatically. Kill me, but it's me.

Sorry Robin. I have something around IMG maps in my head, but it will take time till this will be realized. Dot.

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Guys, it would be possible (technically speaking) to develop a plugin that could fully support Garmin?

If Locus has all necessary API, someone could lead a Opensource project to implement full Garmin support. Locus team could only support these developers on usage of that API. I'm sure there's lot of programmers interested on this, including me.

This way, Locus developers didn't have to spend their precious time on something they're not interested and all development of Garmin support would not break Locus in anyway.

This is my suggestion.

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Hello Jonathan,

interesting idea. I can imagine to place part related to Garmin IMG support to GitHub public repository.

Whole existing support is based on existing JGarminParser library. It correctly load data, but it has terrible support for rendering (completely missing support for files with styles), so this is something that needs to be created. I'll think about it thanks. If I decide, not to invest time into this during next months, this may definitely be a good way how to make this task real ...

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@Robin K

Your most recent post clearly demonstrates you're extremely upset because you've turned to insulting the customer-base and the development team. I doubt this is a winning strategy for convincing people.

Your idea has merit. However, not even Garmin provides a useful backcountry navigation app, for either iOS or Android, that supports IMG files.

  1. Apple's iPhone has a nearly 42% market share in the US.
  2. Gaia GPS and Motion X are the two major backcountry navigation apps for iOS.
  3. Neither support Garmin IMG files.

Perhaps you should try to convince them of the huge untapped US market for displaying IMG files. The first hurdles they will encounter are the same ones everyone else experiences:

  1. The IMG file format is undocumented.
  2. There is no official Garmin API.
  3. Existing frameworks are incomplete or buggy.
  4. Many IMG files are locked to Garmin's devices (and illegal to unlock for use with other devices).

Good luck!

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I used JGarminImgParser to make a simple java app that can export my img maps POI in GPX format, so I could import it on Locus. It solved most of the problems for me. This is a free Brazilian map with lot of good POI. If I have an option to turn off labels and POI icons for Garmin, I could superimpose my POI base over the plain map. Maybe I'll collaborate with them to make this possible, and hopefully, get it working on Locus without any effort of Locus team.

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