Edit track: Creation of waypoints

Ingo Rau shared this idea 3 years ago
Collecting votes

The short version:

Since 3.8.x, there's a new feature in track editing: "Convert to navigation waypoint". This is very nice, however I don't see why this is restricted to the specific set of navigation waypoints - it would give the user more freedom to be able to create any type of waypoint in an existing track, the same way this is possible while recording a track.


The long version:

I'd like to explain this a little more, but for that first some term definitions (I know some people will disagree, but I'm trying to stay close to the way Locus uses the words):

POI (points of interest): The points defined globally in Data > Points

Trackpoints: The individual points that a track consists of (with or without timestamp - not important here)

Waypoints: Specific points that have the same attributes as POIs, but belong to a track and will be shown/hidden together with the track (cannot be done individually).

Navigation waypoint: Special waypoints that trigger specific actions (speech output, etc.) in Locus while navigating. Otherwise, they behave like waypoints (as far as I can see).


Now while recording a track, I often use the ability to add waypoints to mark specific actions (like "put on climbing gear", or "short rest") that make no sense as a (global) POI, just in context of this track. However, when I forget this, I have no chance to do this later (after the track is finished), even if I still remember the exact location (some people pointed a workaround out to me, but that includes setting a POI, hiding everything else, exporting, importing, deleting POI - much too complicated...).

Also for planning routes, it would be very helpful to be able to add arbitrary information to a point, like "climbing passage", or "rest here", that doesn't trigger a specific action, but helps planning.


I'm pretty confident that technically, it shouldn't be a big deal, as there's already a conversion to a waypoint now, and the dialog for adding also exists (just only while recording).

So I hope many would find this helpful and will vote for it, to make planning and editing tracks with Locus even better :)

Comments (14)

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Addendum:

I can imagine that one point of discussion might be if the waypoint has to be the same as a trackpoint or can be anywhere. As far as I understand in GPX, waypoints can be anywhere. Perhaps the reason for the decision to only add the navigation waypoint functionality was that for navigation, it's a given that the waypoint is equal to a trackpoint.

Personally, if that makes it easier to implement, I'm absolutely fine if Locus could only set waypoints on existing points. For existing tracks (with timestamps on the trackpoints), I even think it makes more sense, as the waypoints imho mark a specific action that happened at a specific time. After all, that's what the "Add point" functionality while recording offers, so no need to implement something that goes even further.

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Wouldn't this fit perfectly into the whole TCX Coursepoints discussion?

If you for example create a test track at: http://bikeroutetoaster.com/BRTWebUI

You can insert Coursepoints. There are some standard ones for instructions like LEFT, RIGHT, STRAIGHT, etc

Plus you can also add "Comment". This has a Name and a Description.

If we could settle on a convention and for example introduce HINT as the name, and you use "Put on climbing gear". Then Locus just has to interpret the Garmin TCX schema and display the information based on name and description, X meters before the point.

This would allow anything along a track, navigational information as well as additional stuff.

Inside Locus you could just edit/add such points, the functions are already there.


Example:


1. A Standard Coursepoint

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l81ut8rlhnxhjnu/tcx1.jpg?dl=0


2. A custom Coursepoint

https://www.dropbox.com/s/iiu8ug2q9di16uy/tcx2.jpg?dl=0


3. The generated Cuesheet (collection of Coursepoints embedded in this track)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mm81kyfmkjzkzsy/tcx3.jpg?dl=0

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I don't agree completely, as you're talking about points which trigger Locus to display something "X meters before". I don't mind if there would be user-defined "navigation waypoints" (coursepoints, if you will) instead of the fixed set.

But my idea is about simple waypoints (as the ones created while recording) that Locus shows, but doesn't do anything special with. Perhaps "put on climbing gear" was a slightly misleading example.

Again, fine with me to have both types, but my main concern is creating "dumb" waypoints.

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Well, the trigger could be optional after all.

I misunderstood your example then and thought you would like to know when you're approaching such a point. Still, if made optional, why not use an existing standard if you could chose to be warned on approach, or not (depending on the naming convention).


Two solutions with one simple addition.

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OK, fair enough - sure I don't mind that addition :)

However, what do you mean by "existing standard"? I mean, of course there's an existing standard, that's the GPX waypoints that Locus already understands and creates (while recording). And also imports. You're talking about TCX coursepoints which sound like a different standard to me - and if Locus doesn't support that yet, the addition would make this idea much more complicated.

Let me put it another way: So far, for waypoints (as defined in GPX), Locus supports the following actions:


I only ask for "Create (as ordinary waypoint) while editing a track, then we would have the full set. Well, together with a list of all waypoints in a track to access them easier - but that is already planned: http://help.locusmap.eu/topic/is-there-a-list-of-waypoints-in-a-track

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Yeah I completely understood your question - I just thought you also want to be notified of those points in advance - as for example in sports you often have this scenario, even with the "put on climbing gear" example, or Triathlon, etc..


TCX is the format that garmin uses for their training courses, it includes navigational hints (coursepoints) and basically outlines a Track, including Metadata. So these points are bound to the particular track (no global waypoints). You can play around with bikeroutetoaster linked above and (if you can make sense of it) have a look at the generated XML (TCX) or the Cuesheet tab.


We are trying to get more support for the tcx format in different threads, that's why I came across yours. It perfectly fits the whole waypoints/hints/metadata per track thing.

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Well, let's see what Menion thinks about the necessary effort - if we get him interested ;)

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Locus Trackedit.Cursor positioned on top of an existing trackpoint.SET Navipoint: Create new (way)point, position AND timestamp is copied from trackpoint.PLACE Waypoint: Create new waypoint, position is copied from trackpoint and timestamp is actual edit time.

http://help.locusmap.eu/topic/autodedect-and-select-navigation-points-from-simple-waypoints-in-a-trackfile

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Nice concise description of points Ingo. I'd like to see @Michal incorporate it into the online manual - a glossary/ terminology page, so everyone can share a "common language" when discussing these issues, which may then lead to reducing confusion & ambiguity.

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[off topic]

right, i fear a new user has no clue for right terminology :)

Description (point, (nav)wp,..) is a good idea -> pls add your idea to http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=4558.msg36552#msg36552

[/offtopic]

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To make it even easier to understand:

If the point you add is a normal point (POI), then you have to turn off/on the display of those points separately from the track. Hence, the map could easily become cluttered with such points, even if you hide the tracks. Or you turn off these POIs and then you could miss these points while you are on a track or planning a trip along such a track.

A WAYPOINT is inherently part of a track, so it would always be visible when you see the track.


This is the reason why would it be so important to be able to add a WAYPOINT to an already saved track.

That way you could mark a place which is important on the track; e.g. the place where the group could take a break, a meal, or where you have to watch for some sign etc.

There could be many occasions when you have the time or the willingness to add such waypoints only after a trip has been finished, or maybe the context would make the point important, but the context becomes clear only at the end of the day (because you arrived too early, too late, or not at all :-) ).

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My idea was merged into this. This is totally OK, since they are exactly the same.

However, during merging, my original opening post wasn’t merged here, so here it is:

Ability to add waypoints to an already saved track

It would be great to be able to add waypoints to an already saved track. Not a POI, not a point (saved separately in a folder) but a WAYPOINT, associated with that track.

Why? Because after a trek tour, one may highlight specific points on the track (that he could otherwise forget later). Special places that one wants to recall later. These special locations have to be marked on the track with a symbol – just like in case of waypoints. And maybe add some description to the point. Or attach a photo.


So all the already existing functionality for adding waypoints would be needed, but not just during recording, but also for already saved tracks.

This would be a very fundamental functionality, imo.

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I completely agree, i miss this function a lot

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With 3.21, http://help.locusmap.eu/topic/is-there-a-list-of-waypoints-in-a-track got implemented and finally we have a means to add waypoints to a track. It's not as simple as described here, as you have to go to the waypoints tab in the track details first, but it's much better than before.

Would like to see "Add waypoint" in the edit menu, still, but I can totally live with the waypoints tab.