Impossible to start navigation from other then GPS location

Jürgen Gärtner shared this problem 4 months ago
Not a Problem

I use Locus 3.31.0 together with BRouter for offline navigation. Independet from the topic above (inside routing or external APP) I have a question to the current interface to BRouter.

During selection process of the parameters in the Locus GUI I can change the current starting point from actual GPS position to different other possibilities, e.g. from MyPoints or directly from any position on the map. Whatever I do, the routing works always from the current GPS position. So it is impossible to plan something in advance.

Can we expect a fix?

Jürgen

Comments (41)

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Good day Jürgen,

I've made from your post a separate topic, to focus discussion and not disturb other users of the help desk.

I think, there should be one reason for this behavior: do you have enabled automatic route recalculation? If so, then after the new track is computed, Locus immediately recompute route to new source location > your GPS location.

For a planning of routes, not an instant start of navigation, is made function "Route planner". Did you tried it?


Jiří M. aka Menion

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Hi Menion,

thanks for the hint. Yes, it is correct that automatic recalculation is not appropriate for offline preplanning of a route. For test I have disabled it.

But the error remains.

For a first moment everything seems fine. The route is shown correctly and the distance calculation shows the correct value. But when the first position fix occurs, the display of the distance is immediately switched to the distance from GPS to destination. The route on map is further shown correctly but above the distance and the time to destination is wrong.

Best regards

Jürgen

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Hi Jürgen Gärtner

I do not understand and can not simulate the problem.

What is wrong? Screenshot.

Or send it with the wrong information.

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Hi Condor,

imagine you want to know how would be the way from one point to the next stop, how far away it is and how long would it take approximately. And you do not have internet access because you are anywhere outside. I think that is a normal use case.

The screenshot shows the correct routing but the wrong distance and time. It is the distance from my home position, where I plan the travel trip, to the destination.

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Ok, in the "route planner" sub tool everything works well. And I have also a nice height profile and a magnifying glass with overwhelming control experience. Only the estimated time to destination is missing. But this is already discussed in an other thread.

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It is really weird, that you are unable to achieve what you want with disabled automatic recalculation. Please check once more that you correctly set start and end points in Navigate to screen, before you press "Navigate" button. I've tested it yesterday few times and it always works as an expected > track is computed between two defined places, Locus just complain that I'm too far away from track.

Anyway, route planner is the correct solution for this use-case. And yes, times are missing there, I'm aware of it and agree it should be improved.

Jiří M. aka Menion

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By the Routeplanner:

http://help.locusmap.eu/profile/6248

http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=5953.msg49935#msg49935

In attachment. Track with timestamps and elevation by Komoot.

Compare Speed to Slope.

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Hi Menion,

I'm not sure that I understand you fully. Yes, I have set the START and END point before I pressed the navigation button. See my screenshot above. The route is calculated and is shown correctly on the map. But the distance and estimated time to destination is wrong. (Because of this error I booked an unwanted AirBnB :-)

Also the "Route-Planner" sub tool is not such comfortable as I mentione above.

- A button to disable the auto center function is missing. I always have to go back to switch it off.

- The interface to switch the profile is prepared but is not forwarded to BRouter. I have to change the profile (e.g. car or bicycle), directly in the BRouter app independent from Locus.

I also use the Locus on mobile phone as usual navigator and I'm verry happy with OSM maps and all these heigth and shaddow functions, the auto-centering and rotating in move direction. But it can occur that sometime one forgets that there is a comfortable route-planner tool and does it as usual with the navigator tool.

That was my mistake.

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Navigation and planning work well as expected.

Navigation is primarily for navigation. (Click and Go) Navigation is a tool that (rightly) searches for the path from where you are (GPS) to the destination. That's right and expected. Some auto-navigation do not even have the option to select a starting point.

Finding a route from point A to point B is planning (car-navigation - itinerary)

Navigation provides the information needed to drive.

Palnning provides other route information.


The brouter profiles work and also change them in Locus, provided that the Locus control is set.


+ edit:

Make a route from point A to point B through planning is much easier and faster (3 clicks) and we get all the information.

The same thing in navigating through editing points is more complicated (6 click) and we do not get all the route information. Getting information on the ride. (What is right)

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Hi Condor,

I do not know what you are talking about. The "normal" behavior is auto-centering on, because I want to see what is around my actual position. Only if I sit in the car I switch on the auto-rotate tool additionally. That all works well - no question.

If I always use the navigation from GPS starting point, which also works well, then it is only one click more to change the starting point in these rarely cases when I want to start the navigation from any other starting point. The menu item to do this is exemplary. The calculated route is correct shown on the map. Only the dates above are wrong. I think this little error could be fixed.

Next,

in that moment when the "Route-Planner" sub tool was entered, automatically the auto-center funtion should be switched off. That is all and I think, it should be not too difficult.

Jürgen

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Time and distance are shown correctly.

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@Menion

I do not use Auto Center Map.

After reading the discussion, I tried it. It's no use to make this setting when planning a route! It's illogical and it degrades the function.

I am also surprised that this feature (auto center map) is missing in the quick setup panels. If I use this feature I expect it to be switched on / off.

I recommend correcting and supplementing these things.

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Hi guys,

- agree that enabled map centering has no place in route planner. So even when on the main screen, center button will be enabled (most bottom left button), in route planner will be disabled. Thanks

- anyway still remains the problem with the incorrect start of navigation. Jürgen, may you please double check that you have automatic auto-recalculation disabled and after that, create for me a video with this nice app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hecorat.screenrecorder.free , that will illustrate this problem. Thank You!


Jiří M. aka Menion

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Hi Menion,

here is your requested video. Sorry, it is huge.


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hzyopmko5vb6jpj/AAC7WYoljrYe5_-fxBvV6fNna?dl=0


It seems to be another error in the start point selection. I pressed the menu item "take from map" but "take from display center" was processed.

Jürgen

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Bigger is not a problem, this help desk is just limited in size of attachments. Send it please on my working email jiri.mlavec@asamm.com, thank you.

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Hi,

perfect, thanks. So ...

From my point of view, Locus do what I expected to do.

Start point selection: you selected start point on the map dialog. Here, tab on big blue OK button confirm coordinates just under map center cross. Move with center of screen on different place and confirm by OK button to choose different location, or tap anywhere on the map and then on small white "Tap to select" popup. Just tested and should work correctly.

About navigation: when auto-recalculate is disabled, it really compute navigation between start > end points without trigger of recalculation: visible in 2:10 of your video ... track computed and nothing more happen. Because you have enabled GPS, there is just a connection line between your current location and start point of track. What you expected here?

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The problem is that you have to remember turn of auto-recalculate and it is also a hassle doing this. Why don't you try to make Locus Map a little bit smarter?


I live in Norway and often when planning vacations, I try to find routes and driving times between places. So it makes no sense that Locus map is changing the starting point of a route between for instance Barcelona and Madrid when the gps position tells Locus Map that I am in Norway. Why cant the auto-recalculate be triggered when you alredy have been on the route. If you have never been on the route, auto-recalculate should be turned off for that particular route.

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And while I am into it: You have made a route planner in Locus Map, but it is no good for driving. I can only select walking, cycling or skiing when I want to know how long time it takes to travel the distance.


(And when selecting route statistics, Locus Map is crashing)

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Hi, thanks for a feedback. Is it really necessary to plan a vacation over "Navigate to" function? If this is only because of missing times in "Route planner", then this is something I agree that needs to be fixed soon. Route planner should be optimized for planning, "Navigate to" function for quick work in the field when you needs to navigate somewhere. Should not be exchanged.

(and crash fixed, thanks).

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@ Menion

That "Tab to select" trick I also found out meanwhile. Not a good solution because nobody expects this, but not really a big problem.

Did you realized that the behavior is equal in both cases of the movie, no matter if auto-recalculation is enabled or not. I agree with the suggestion of SV Hovland to evaluate whether I'm on the route or not. But I can also imagine that the effort for such a change is markable.

But my main problem was: The data in the headline (distance and time to destination) are wrong. Because they are always calculated from GPS and not from the reall starting point.

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@ SV Hovland

I found out that changing the profile (car, bike) is also possible in the "Route Planner" subtool but it depends on the sequence of pressing the control elements. The blue profile button has to be pressed before the second route point was set. A rearrangement after the first calculation into another profile is (still) not possible.

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This is in order to preserve the possibility of planning a combined route.

People planning holidays, trips and routes...

For example, one route per day of travel from many days of my plan:


Auto-Fast on the Paid Way (SK). - short off-priced (H). - Short Forest Walking Walking. - Fast highway pay, avoid unpaved road (RO). - Mountain car 4x4. - Hiking. - ECO fast.


For this, the entire route must not be converted for each profile change.

(As an optional option of course yes)

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@JürgenYou wrote that selection of location of map screen center (under cross) when tap on blue OK button is "Not a good solution because nobody expects this" ... any suggestion? What you expected that this button do?

Equal behaviour: no, it isn't. In first case is visible small green popup that Locus started recalculation. It wasn't finished because 500 km long distance takes some time.

And data in headline ... yes, it is a "problem". As mentioned before: you are trying to use "Navigate to" functionality for a use-case that is not made for. Sorry, but I really can't help here now. If you want to plan a route, use "Route planner". Use "Navigate to" mainly if you wants to get somewhere from your current location.

Some "smart" Locus as Holand suggested also does not help here, because your problem seems to be time & distance values, not directly fact that Locus Map perform auto-recalculation.

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And rearranging is possible ... as Condor wrote, currently solution gives maximum flexibility.

Anyway simply set wanted profile and then add points and Locus will compute new segments with the defined profile. If you want to change a certain part of existing route, change the profile and then move by finger with already placed green/blue corner (shaping) points and this will trigger recompute of the segment before and after of this point. Hope this helps.

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@ Menion

I would understand the answer: Hey, this is such a small malfunction and we do currently not have enough manpower .. Ok. But that this should be the wanted and expected behavior - sorry.

With some experiences now and after these discussion, I can life with. But the next newbie will tap into the same trap again, sure. And don't think that is unlikely. It occurs when you sit on evening in a hotel, do not have any satellite connectivity because many concrete around and you only want to know how far it is tomorrow. As usual you take your navi as always and everything works as expected. Of course you trust the km. Why not, it was always correct? Automatic recalculation does not occur because you do not have a GPS fix. Or you have your fix but the recalculation takes a while. You won't get no warning but the wrong values.

You have such a wonderful menu system with overwhelming possibilities. How to explain that in this case the selection of a starting point is void?

The "smart" Locus, let me call it the Hovland approach, would be a very good final solution. But I agree, this will be not cheap.

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Jürgen Gärtner

You can join your vote here:

http://help.locusmap.eu/topic/new-route-planning-ad-car-time-estimate


Well thank you


Apropos:

In the situation described in the evening, you will get exactly the right information from hotel. How far and how long it will take to the destination. :-) And so it works and that's right.


If I sit at home on the couch and want to plan a trip from a hotel in Norway to a national park in Sweden it makes sense to use a planing.

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@ Menion

Concerning the menu item "Select from map"

After the first click into the map a small pop-up occurs. Then everybody expects that the pointed value will be taken over with the OK-button. Nobody expects that the OK-button now takes the position under the cross in the middle. Especially not when for this function a separate menu item exists.

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@ Condor

again: A newbie travels the first 800 km on a well known highway. So it is not necessary to activate the navi. Better he saves the battery power. Evening in the hotel he takes his tablet to prepare the next day travel. Tablet has no satellite signal, so it is still at home which is 800 km away. Do you understand now ... ?

(The newbie was me and I booked a wrong pension.)

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Correction

I went down into the basement to repeat the experiment. No satellite signal. Starting point from map. Surprise! Everything works fine. Correct data for distance and time. Repeatedly!

(Now I understand Condor :-)

What's happen? I went back above into the office. Good satellite signal. Error is back again.

That means my assumtion above was not correct. If there is no satellite signal, an old last position is not hold in memory as I thought yesterday.

I think, that makes the software fix easier.

Thanks

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The newbie should use Route planner instead ;). But understand ... he did not know in that time.

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Menion,

don't let me be misunderstood. I got also some practice in RoutePlanner now. But this tool is more powerful and has also more uncertainties. I think I cannot tell you all these little things of wondering. (A planned route was stored, but where is it now? How to import in navigation - ok, there is a menu item to convert - aha - how to delete the planned route? Yea works, but it is still there with another color - how to remove this? And so on ...)

Understand me, there is no time to research when somebody is waiting ...

Therefore I prefer the (simple) smart things and in this case it is "Navigate to"

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Today we had another lecture of Locus...

24 people answered the question of navigation:

Yes time and distance is correct and expected.

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Guys,

compliment for such a good help desk. Here we can communicate directly with developers, people who know what they speak about. Imagine you have a problem with Garmin or Tomtom ...

We have addressed a couple of problems, we discussed pro and contras and so it was worth the long discussion thread. Thanks!

Jürgen

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Jürgen

I agree.

Any questions or problems in the future will get the answer from someone.

Stefan

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Nice discussion: We've just published new version 3.31.1 so I hope I'll have again time on some improvements.


Let's separate into few things ...

  1. Pick of location on the map ... good point of view Jürgen. Agree it makes sense ... I'll do something with it, thanks
  2. Quick start of navigation over "Navigate to" is something I really wants to keep
  3. Route planner mainly for a planning is logical, so no need to change it.
  4. Anyway planning over navigation is currently close to impossible. I was thinking some time about some interaction ... what about in case, start point remains GPS, then big "Navigate symbol" starts navigation as now. In case, you define start point other then "GPS", big symbol change to "Route planner" and tap on it opens route planner with choose routing type & defined start > end points?
  5. "Smart Locus" that does not recalculate if you are too far from track ... hard for me to find some smart logic what is and what isn't too far. Have to think about it ...

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I agree,

but I think point 4 will become very difficult. Not only the software changes also the control graph from ergonomic perspective. "Navigate to" has to define only one destination point and after this in exceptional cases additionally a starting point. If than the control will be directed to "RoutePlanner" always two points have to be supplied in vice versa sequence. After all one has to find the menu item which is called "Navigation".

Now two routes are pending, one from RoutePlanner and the other fom Navigator. If the driver reaches the destination, automatically the Navi route was deleted. But what is with the RoutePlanner's route?

I can imagine thousends of other unpredictable things.

From my point, I would better life with a known bug as it is now.

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Last verification of other navigation behavior.


TomTom:

Navigation is always start the GPS position. In a complicated way, the start point can be changed. Navigation will remain in "similar to planing" mode (the original TomTom Planning / itenerary is not).

Navigation waits for GPS, or to re-calculate the route or to physically reach the starting point.


Google:

The starting point of navigation is always the GPS position.

After you change the start of a point, you navigate to the Planning mode or Route Show.

There is no way to start navigation with a point other than GPS.


Locus

Works similarly.


That's all from me on this topic.

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OK Jürgen

So I write ...


Do you just want to go somewhere?

Sit in your car (bicycle, motorbike, ski, hiking boots)

Select where you want to go and press the NAVIGATE key. All done ;-)


Do you want to plan a route at home?

Press the PLANING key and continue planning.


Do you have a saved route? (Is in the folder you chose or created)


Click the route and press NAVIGATE and go.


Yes Locus is a huge tool for many possible activities.

It's the most variable mapping tool I know.

Many choices logically bring a more complicated structure.

That is why we use and love it.


For easy navigation, you can use any "primitive" navigation.


I recommend using Locus and after a while you will know how to use quick options, panels right, left, top, bottom. You will adapt to your use. Then you can, even at night, drive your car, plan a trip or change it with 3-5 touches over half of Europa.


The range of options available in Locus is bigger than you anticipate and what you can imagine today.


My lectures on Locus (maps, geocaching, navigation, planning, personalization and a few other things) is about a third of the options (no track records, no training, no fitness, no watch, no external devices, etc... etc...) in 5 lectures lasting 2 hours per year. Prerequisite preparation of listeners at home on the subject of a specific lecture.


It is not possible in the scope of this discussion to explain to you all the context.


This is really the last song on this topic :-))

Stefan - Condor

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Hi guys,

thanks for a discussion. I think that results are: the current system is +- ok.

On the second side, it confirmed to me, that "Navigate to" may be tried to use as a planner, which is a quite complicated task. For now, the system remains. Thanks.

I'm anyway writing notes to my "todo" list (to think about):

  • quick start of route planner from "Navigate to" or some kind of cooperation
  • add missing time estimates to Route planner next to distance values
  • consider disabling automatic recalculation when too far from the route
  • consider a better selection of location from the map (a problem in the visible popup after tap & what do now big blue "ok")

Hope I have everything important from this long discussion. Now my head needs to accept it :).

Jiří M. aka Menion

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Hi Menion,

what about this simple workaround:

IF

in a "Navigate to" scenario a starting point other than GPS was detected

THEN

- save the recalculation mode

- start a timer with 100 s

- disable recalculation

- disregard actual GPS position (or simulate no GPS fix)

END

ON TIMER EXPIRED OR END OF NAVIGATION

- restore the old recalculation mode

- restore GPS fix

- start recalculation with a beep (if recalculation was enabled)

END

In this one minute the correct data are displayed for information and nobody has to remember that there is leak or has to switch over the recalculation mode.

Regards Jürgen

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