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Locus Map - help desk Topic Idea Locus Map (Android)

Category Locus Map (Android)

Comments 13

Subscribers 4

Votes 2

Via point creation on route import

Guy Evans shared this idea ago

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The new "distance to via point" in the dashboard is great - I use it to know the distance to the next checkpoint when doing a long challenge walk.

However, this now means that I need to make sure my routes have via points. I either download GPX routes or use third party software to create them. Typically, the downloaded route will have comment/descriptions on those points which are checkpoints or I can easily add them in the 3rd party software.

If I export & import as a GPX route Locus Map, turns every rtept into a via point. This results in hundreds of via points and is unworkable for me.

If I export & import as a GPX track Locus Map, does not create any via points. I can then manually edit the track and find & convert relevant points on the track into via points. This works but is cumbersome (in particular finding the exact point the checkpoints are requires careful searching and cross-referencing back to the original route).

There is already a dialog which has various options when importing route/tracks into Locus Map. I'd like to propose a new option in this dialog "Create via points from" with three options

All route/track points
No route/track points
Route/track points with a comment or description

The option would default to "All" when importing tracks and "None" when importing routes so current behaviour will not change (as a side benefit it also makes the current behaviour clearer). In my use case, I'd choose the "Route/track points with a comment or descrpition" and it would save having to manually edit the route after import.

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Replies (2)

0709 ●

1. For better understanding you could please attach some gpx example files.

Subject: Locus @ gpx export.

- Export as (trk)track + (if set) navigation turnpoints inclusive Viapoints into associated waypoints. OK

- Export as (rte)route. This practically exactly the same as the track export, except that the gpx trkpt becomes rtept. (minus trkseg)

This export result is also known as "direct route" with the same point density as a track and that probably no one ever does use ? Imo this is an obsolete export mode offered by Locus. It could be better more optimal.

Replace pse by the usual standard compact (rte) route that only contain the minimal necessary reference routepoints to trigger (steer) a Planner Router engine.

- Proposal:

Locus gpx standard (rte) route export.

This export should only contain the Start point location, the Via points PLUS Shaping points locations and the Finish point location.

Thereby PLEASE do NOT attach the (generated) Turnpoints as these are too close located near to street junctions an so are the main cause for mini trackglitch productions.

This compact (rte) route so nicely only contains the optimaly positioned planner point references that are necessary for the (a) routing engine.

In the attachment find a compact example gpx file.

This file does contain next (multiple) elements.

1. Simple free located informative waypoints. (Clean and conveniently compact not polluted nor overloaded by hundreds of navigation waypoints).

2. A standard (rte)route. Compact

3. A track. (Locus compatible, the navigation directions instructions are directly attached).

Locus does not (know) distinguish between a track or a route. For Locus (the developer) just considers these to be very similar position locations that you can then perform something with. (Magic)

As Locus map so does not offer a selector nor makes a separation @ import.

-Or the route

-Or the track

-Or both. (Locus default)

Therefore after Locus import both the route and the track are displayed both and the waypoints get so separated into the points folder.

1. For better understanding you could please attach some gpx example files.

Subject: Locus @ gpx export.

- Export as (trk)track + (if set) navigation turnpoints inclusive Viapoints into associated waypoints. OK

- Export as (rte)route. This practically exactly the same as the track export, except that the gpx trkpt becomes rtept. (minus trkseg)

Replace pse by the usual standard compact (rte) route that only contain the minimal necessary reference routepoints to trigger (steer) a Planner Router engine.

- Proposal:

Locus gpx standard (rte) route export.

This export should only contain the Start point location, the Via points PLUS Shaping points locations and the Finish point location.

Thereby PLEASE do NOT attach the (generated) Turnpoints as these are too close located near to street junctions an so are the main cause for mini trackglitch productions.

This compact (rte) route so nicely only contains the optimaly positioned planner point references that are necessary for the (a) routing engine.

In the attachment find a compact example gpx file.

This file does contain next (multiple) elements.

1. Simple free located informative waypoints. (Clean and conveniently compact not polluted nor overloaded by hundreds of navigation waypoints).

2. A standard (rte)route. Compact

3. A track. (Locus compatible, the navigation directions instructions are directly attached).

Locus does not (know) distinguish between a track or a route. For Locus (the developer) just considers these to be very similar position locations that you can then perform something with. (Magic)

As Locus map so does not offer a selector nor makes a separation @ import.

-Or the route

-Or the track

-Or both. (Locus default)

Therefore after Locus import both the route and the track are displayed both and the waypoints get so separated into the points folder.

Files:

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Guy Evans ●

I'm not sure why you are talking about Locus export? My suggestion is for an enhancements for Locus import and in particular control of the creation of via points.

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0709 ●

Since direct routes are uncommon in the EU, Locus produces them exceptionally to the detriment of the more common compact routes.

Direct routes were popular in the Anglo-Saxon countries but are increasingly being abandoned. The good time that Locus export is now changing this too ?

So if you do not use the Locus direct route what do you use ? Which source of direct routes do you still use ?

And which 3 party software do you use and how do you add what & where exactly. And also attach a resulting example please.

Not long ago (my suggestion) there was something similar (with trkpt) used and it was quite disappointing, with suddenly hundreds of complaint reports. A disaster.

This was mainly due to what a popular 3 party converter software accidentally but unknowingly added to gpx tags itself.

There is extra selectivity built into Locus for this, which does not just promote points to Via or Turnpoints on the basis of cmt or desc content (trkpt).

That is why it is so important to clearly state your source and to include a result file after editing by your 3rd party software.

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Guy Evans ●

I do not know what you mean by a "direct route".

I did a 50 mile challenge walk recently. There were four checkpoints. I'd like the checkpoints to be via points within Locus so that in the dashboard I can see the distance to the next check point.

Attached is the GPX as a route - Surrey Tops As Route.gpx. When I import this into Locus *all* rtpept's become via points which is of no value to me. There are so many of them that I do not do this in practice.

Attached is the same GPX as a track - Surrey Tops As Track.gpx. When I import this into Locus *none* of the trkpt's become via points. Within Locus, I can then edit the track and manually find & make the four points that I want to be via points. This works and is what I do in practice. However, doing this is slow and time consuming (in particular finding the four points).

Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems that when importing a GPX <trk> then Locus does not make any of the trkpt's via points. Conversely, when importing a GPX <rte> then Locus makes *all* rtept's via points.

What I'm proposing is that on importing a route/track Locus Map has an additional option specifying how via points are created:-

Create via points from all points (will be default if GPX file is a route)
Create via points from no points (will be default if GPX file is a track)
Create via points from points with a description

You'll see that in the Surrey Tops As Route.gpx file that the 4 points corresponding to the checkpoints have a description. This new option would thus achieve what I want.

As this is a new option, with the default behaviour matching what currently happens I can't see how this could cause complaints.

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0709 ●

Ok is created by http://www.mapyx.com/index.asp

And let's find out the opinion and reply of the Locus team.

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Guy Evans ●

Yes, but the program that was used to export the GPX route/track is not really relevant to my proposal

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Menion ●

Hello Guy,

this is interesting idea. Thanks for the shared GPX files, it helped me to understand better.

What is a correct behavior is importing route as sequence of "trkpt" points with bunch of "wpt" point attached in the same file. You are anyway trying to supply also important points over "trkpt" that is not a recommended method.

Anyway I see two options what you may currently do:

- copy important points as "wpt" after a "trk" track in the file

- add a symbol tag to "trkpt" that will promote your points to via-points. So it should look like this

      <trkpt lat="51.1843851491357" lon="-0.719696935448328">
        <ele>49.7422177053466</ele>
        <time>2021-09-15T11:08:18.7122627</time>
        <name>CP1</name>
        <desc>CP1</desc>
        <sym>pass_place</sym>
      </trkpt>

"pass_place" symbol should help here.

Hello Guy,

this is interesting idea. Thanks for the shared GPX files, it helped me to understand better.

Anyway I see two options what you may currently do:

- copy important points as "wpt" after a "trk" track in the file

- add a symbol tag to "trkpt" that will promote your points to via-points. So it should look like this

      <trkpt lat="51.1843851491357" lon="-0.719696935448328">
        <ele>49.7422177053466</ele>
        <time>2021-09-15T11:08:18.7122627</time>
        <name>CP1</name>
        <desc>CP1</desc>
        <sym>pass_place</sym>
      </trkpt>

"pass_place" symbol should help here.

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0709 ●

- The first option as in attachment. (Edit by external 3e party pc program)

- The second option as in attachment here. (Edit by external 3e party pc program)

https://help.locusmap.eu/topic/25984-via-point-creation-on-route-import#comment-103414

@ Guy.

http://www.mapyx.com/index.asp

Starters guide page 102.

Gives the option to add a symbol or image to the waypoint. From table below > "Custom".

To test: Can you add the free symbol text (pass_place) at the Via point positions ?

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Guy Evans ●

Thanks both.

I can confirm that within the 3rd party software Quo I can export the track and the waypoints in a GPX file, I can then import into Locus Map and if I select the option to "merge the waypoints into track" then these get converted into via points. This is much better to my previous workflow. However, it is still a bit cumbersome - I need to convert the route to a track and create a waypoint set instead of just editing the comment on an existing route point. (I use GPX tracks to record my tracks, and use GPX routes for routes that I am planning to follow - which I believe is the original intention of the distinction between the two).

@0709, thanks for looking through the Quo starters guide. Within Quo you can indeed add custom symbols. However, it's not a freeform text field - you need to add an image (called "pass_place.jpg"). Further, this needs to be done for every single GPX file. So whilst this method would also work, it is a bit more cumbersome.

@Menion, You said: "You are anyway trying to supply also important points over "trkpt" that is not a recommended method." Why not (especially as the use of the <sym> element is doing exactly that!). Taking a step back, Locus needs to identify "special points" in the GPX track or route, in a way that is widely supported by all the various tools that produce GPX files. The use of the comment/descriptor field tends to be something which is easily edited and is thus likely to be widely supported.

I would also still like to be able to import a GPX *route* and have control over via point creation which as far as I know is not possible in Locus (all route points becoming via points).

To summarise, I have a new work flow that works better than before (thanks both) but I still think the original suggestion makes sense. However, I also know you have a large backlog and need to prioritise so I will set my expectations accordingly :-)

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0709 ●

Hello Guy again.

Locus navigation gpx import works with both associated wpt and trkpt sym, and yes, you can even "mix".

You can quickly create and use a perfect navigation point from any track point (even with notepad).

You just need to know the desired <sym> from the Locus standard list and apply it in the trkpt.

I am just trying to explain the Via Point instruction by trkpt sym.

This mainly concerns the "selectivity" import already mentioned

In Locus, [EN]<sym> is a fixed and important tag for navigation.

The (35) importable [EN]<sym> are a fixed standard for Locus app.

The <sym>pass_place from this Locus list functions as a Via Point.

The Locus sym selectivity prevents so uncontrolled "wild" imports.

More (better) comments I leave to Menion.

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Guy Evans ●

Thanks for your message. Yep, understand I can edit the exported GPX file with a text editor (and indeed this might be what I end up doing) - but I don't think we can expect the majority of people to be able/happy to do this.

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0709 ●

Roger.

Understand. I prefer to use (pc) freeware gpx editor program to quickly add a sym text.

https://t.ly/jQIt

In your file so find the CPx > add sym pass_place.

Tap the selected trackpoint > Popup >Waypoint Properties > edit.

Set optimal informative map view:

Options > Settings > OpenStreetMap > Put a dot on the map if a trackpoint in a route has a symbol.

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0709 ●

@ Guy.

(I use GPX tracks to record my tracks, and use GPX routes for routes that I am planning to follow - which I believe is the original intention of the distinction between the two).

Yes, I know, it's still a problem to get that out of your head, but in any case a track can also take you exactly where you want or need to be.

In Locus (and some other gps or apps), this can be done immediately after importing the navigation track file 100% faithfully and exactly as designed using turn by turn instructions.

So turn by turn navigation without a router having to (re)calculate something first and often daring to make unsolicited changes to your design.

Track or route. (I remember it simply like this)

With a route you have straight short lines between (few) route points.

With a track, you follow a more detailed trajectory between many track points.

1. You follow a route when you need to buy clothes in some shops.

2. You follow a track when your wife goes to buy clothes and she says follow me.

(Bet 2 is longer)

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