Can't edit existing track in WebPlanner without triggering recalculate-all #2

Andrew Heard shared this question 29 days ago
Need Answer

please ignore previous topic of same name (or delete) I was making changes, but the editor prevents me from Saving - "No permissions to view this page":

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I was trying to edit a 3rd party existing 50km track which was imported into the WebPlanner from a GPX file. It contains approx. 800 valid<trkpt> and valid elevations. There are no Via points. BTW it follows the EuroVelo1 route through southwest Ireland.

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First of all (digression), when the mouse hovers over an existing track segment, the WebPlanner displays the red "pin" icon. Intuitively should a mouse click would then add a Via point into the track segment between any existing points? With the current modal UI model (the key focus is on the + symbol - LHS below), the new point is appended to the track. Confusing? I have to click the + sign between (1) and (2).


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But the main problem, as soon as I add that first Via point, the whole track (route) is then lost except of course the start (1), finish (4) and now middle two points (2 & 3) because adding the point triggers recalculate-all. It appears impossible to use the WebPlanner to edit an existing track, so the advantage of big screen WebPlanner+mouse compared to small screen LM app is lost ;-(

When the same track is displayed in the LM4 app Route Planner, 11 auto Via points and track segment icons are conveniently provided, mostly preventing severe recalculate-all issues, and tapping any track segment icon allows a new Via to be added - context-free:


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The editing with BRouter-web (and RideWithGPS-web) are also far more intuitive in this regard. And with the big screen+mouse advantages over the app. BRouter offers to load the GPX as a track (cant edit) or route. In the latter case, like LM4 app Route Planner, auto Via points are conveniently provided which can be dragged (modeless/ context free) or hover over track segment to add another Via point.


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And curiously, the new track also generates a stupid -365% slope along a continuous section of road:


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Maybe there are some tips from experts on how to workaround these track editing issues.

It appears my current options are:

  1. create a new WebPlanner track and "trace" over the existing track, adding Via points to lock the route
  2. use LM4 app Route Planner, and sacrifice the efficiency of big screen+mouse
  3. use BRouter-web (preferred)

Replies (1)

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hover > right click on red pin icon - what about 2 more menu items - adding a new point?

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What is required here is what you could quickly do in the much older Locus versions with the simple basic Locus track editor. Convert any track point into a turn point or a via point. This than without any unwanted recalculation trigger.

Despite some opposition from several users and for a strange reason still unknown to me, this simple and not at all destructive feature was removed. Strange how you can sometimes saw the legs from under your own beautiful table. So now you have to use the rather more complex route planner to perform this very simple task. With external means or programs you can still do this in a completely non-destructive way.

Either you use the freeware gpx editor or you simply use Notepad++. A negative by Notepad++ is you must of course so be able to find the exact track point again. Preferably method is that you would be able to fastly select it on the map and than be able to edit it. Just must add a <sym>pass_place <type>Via. (By <type Shaping not yet :(( ! ) Add this extra tag into the corresponding gpx track point and that's it. This also works without any problem with an existing Locus track file with the navigation instructions in associated waypoints.


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After a short sunny bike ride, I have now checked how the RouteYou web Planner processes this ordinary import simple track.


Import the original track into RouteYou web. Save in the RouteYou database. Then export as a Locus gpx track.


Test 1:

We are going to test how the attachment of the turnpoints proceeds and especially how correctly the export track still matches to the original shape.

- In the list of turnpoints by Route you immediately see one U-turn command appear @ trkpt 578 which was unexpected for me. = 1 x False.


Test 2:

Since the Locus app map route planner already has one of the better and clearer trackglitch detectors, I also import it into Locus map;

- After import in Locus map app, go to route planner, so you can see clearly where there are trackglitches. = 3 x False.


Please note that with the current Locus versions, all generated planner points are visible here as blue squares = Via Points !


- No name & pass_place & Shaping Point 4

- No name & U-turn & Via Point 16

- No name & pass_place & Via Point 26.


As far as trackglitch detection is concerned, the Locus route planner is definitely quite clear and effective, and for that reason alone it is already a useful tool.

Unfortunately, Locus map does not generate U-turn commands and certainly not in combination with the reference planner points Via or Shaping.


End of the tests. Conclusion? I am listening.


Attachment: Original as gpx track red and the export RouteYou as gpx track blue.


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BRouter-web has an elegant & intuitive way of handling this situation - see attached files with "fuzziness" slider setting. The user decides how densely packed the shaping points are along the imported GPX file. You can have very few shaping points - routing engine is free to make large changes, or very many shaping points - routing engine will only recalculate over shorter segments. Of course the user is also free to delete shaping points where desired too.

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I know that Andrew, I have read the information there, less support (shaping) points so that Brouter can show its strengths.

So by optimal profile and optimal fuzziness choice etc. So many optimisations that simple manual retracing becomes more attractive.

Brouter web, however, has only one thing to do here, and that is to reconstruct the loaded track as faithfully as possible, including good instructions.

But unfortunately, even then mini track glitches are produced with accompanying false instructions that you can hardly detect on the map.

A decent (prevention of) trackglitch indicator is not present in Brouter web, so after import it is a task for the Locus route planner?

Does not work. Those artificially placed (whether or not many) supporting necessary Shaping Points are not transferred into the gpx track file.

So you keep on fiddling. In short.... end of story. Go and retrace manually with DISCIPLINE, and you will get a better result.

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Hi, thanks for a lot of feedback.

1. Auto generation of the via points - planned

2. Adding shaping point when clicked on the track segment - planned

3. Slope glitch - strange ... should be fixed in the next web planner version

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Hi Ondřej

Slope glitch ?

I suppose = "track glitch" ?

So the web planner inclusive "built in" track glitch indicator just as in the Locus map app ?

Welcome, a very welcome & really valuable tool !

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Hi 0709, I am not sure ... I was referring to the strange slope spike pointed out by Andrew. Probably you mean something else?

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OK, I see, ...maybe ask Menion...he sure understands ;-) (Sorry no more extra text to add)

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