Difference between Guiding and Navigation
Hello Menion
After our discussion in this thread (https://getsatisfaction.com/locus/top...) I was thinking about your comment "Current plan is to generate voice orders for these tracks and then enable normal voice navigation, so then "Turn On when notify during navigation" will be applied on this also" for a while.
What I understand is, that "guiding" and "navigation" shows different behaviors:
1. Guiding along a track with text to speech leads to notifications, when a certain angle between waypoints compared to the one before is exceeded. For example 0°-30° "[nothing]", 30°-60° "slightly right", 60°-120° means "right", 120°-180° "sharp right".
This leads to a notification because of a certain angle (red circles, "right", "left") although I`m riding on the same way along:
On the other side, I will get no notification although I`m changing from the big way to the very small path here:
Question: 1. Is that right
2. Is there a limit of distance between to waypoints, which has to be exceeded before guiding gives a notification. I`m thinking of switchbacks ways.
2. Navigation means a automatic generated route along map data from point A to B.
The information if its a turn or if its just the "shape" of the street is included in the map data.
This would lead to no notifications in the first case (CloudMade):
and to the notification "Continue 0,2km" in the second case:
Question: 1. Is that right
2. Would it be difficult to generate a "navigation route" automatically from a GPX track? This would be your original idea, which I can understand now a little bit better.
Questions to all users: What would be the better solution for hiking/mountainbiking and so on?
With navigation it is interesting that a routing with mapquest leads to "stay left...", what is totally wrong:
with Yours to no notifiaction and with OSRM "route cannot be calculated".
Thanks
The same question 
Wow. Congratulations on screenshots. That was lots of work.
Wow. Congratulations on screenshots. That was lots of work.
Hello
To bring this further on, I tried some things and finally I can answer my question partly by myself.
There are two things which are against using "Navigation".
1. Currently there is no opportunity to "convert" a GPX track into a track with navigation notifications.
2. The current opportunity to reroute a GPX track with navigation is useless because,
a) On the finish point of each line the route service sets a command like "Go east..... ". This is not needed because I cannot go anywhere else at that moment.
b) The routing generated by the services is bad or does not work:
MapQuest:
No notification on the second crossing left.
CloudMade:
Does not even know the way.
Yours:
No notifications at all. Obviously Yours do not have notifications.
OSRM:
Nothing.
Thats a little bit frustrating if you take into account that we have 2013.
Question to Menion: Is there a solution for problem 1.?
Is there a way to change 2a)?
Do you have influence on routing quality/ability of the services?
So for now guiding is the only way to go.
Thanks
Hello
To bring this further on, I tried some things and finally I can answer my question partly by myself.
There are two things which are against using "Navigation".
1. Currently there is no opportunity to "convert" a GPX track into a track with navigation notifications.
2. The current opportunity to reroute a GPX track with navigation is useless because,
a) On the finish point of each line the route service sets a command like "Go east..... ". This is not needed because I cannot go anywhere else at that moment.
b) The routing generated by the services is bad or does not work:
MapQuest:
No notification on the second crossing left.
CloudMade:
Does not even know the way.
Yours:
No notifications at all. Obviously Yours do not have notifications.
OSRM:
Nothing.
Thats a little bit frustrating if you take into account that we have 2013.
Question to Menion: Is there a solution for problem 1.?
Is there a way to change 2a)?
Do you have influence on routing quality/ability of the services?
So for now guiding is the only way to go.
Thanks
>So for now guiding is the only way to go.
I don`t think it is so easy. Whatever you try to do (navigate or guide) the result is the better the more information gives you the data source for routing. E.g. if the source gives you explicit information that this particular node is a roundabout with four exits and you should take the second (or the node is a crossing and you should turn left) the navigation/guiding (whatever you call it) will always be better compared to the case you just have a polyline with no additional information.
By the way, I just tested a little bit BRouter, the free offline routing on Android phones (http://brensche.de/brouter/offline.html) and was dissapointed that the result (the route) you get in GPX is a polyline with no additional information too :-(
>So for now guiding is the only way to go.
I don`t think it is so easy. Whatever you try to do (navigate or guide) the result is the better the more information gives you the data source for routing. E.g. if the source gives you explicit information that this particular node is a roundabout with four exits and you should take the second (or the node is a crossing and you should turn left) the navigation/guiding (whatever you call it) will always be better compared to the case you just have a polyline with no additional information.
By the way, I just tested a little bit BRouter, the free offline routing on Android phones (http://brensche.de/brouter/offline.html) and was dissapointed that the result (the route) you get in GPX is a polyline with no additional information too :-(
Hi Joachim,
I`ll try to answer firstly questions from your first post
ad 1) you`re partially. I do not take directly angles on certain points, but I try to check around +- 100 metres before and after and compute some "average angle". To prevent notification when you have quite a lot of points for example recorded by your device.
1.1) answered above
1.2) there is I think internal limit to 50 metres
ad 2) if you use online service, then result is track from many points that define shape of this track AND a few big waypoints that contain information like "here turn left", "here turn ...", etc. so Locus may use them to "real" navigation.
These online services works in very simple way. i send them two points and type of route I want to compute, they send me back definition. So you imagine that I "recomute" GPX track to this solution, I have to say it`s not simply possible, because online service for sure compute track on different way.
ad 3)
YOURS do not compute navigation orders, it`s same as BBRouter - just a plain track from simple points. MapQuest and OSRM may be both tested on web in their online map app, where you may see same results as in Locus
ad second post
----------------
1) currently I don`t have idea how to convert track to route
2) ah sorry, this should be a problem on my side. Problem when I merge two tracks at once. I`ll check it
3) I have no possibility to influence quality of these routing services
Celda: author of BBRouter plan to add these additional information, but It`s quite complicated task that will take some (more) time
---------------
uff, hope this gave you answer to at least some questions. I`m aware that navigation in Locus is not best. Tommi is one of main users that push me to make it better. I`m aware of it, but I still don`t see a simple way where to start :)
Hi Joachim,
I`ll try to answer firstly questions from your first post
ad 1) you`re partially. I do not take directly angles on certain points, but I try to check around +- 100 metres before and after and compute some "average angle". To prevent notification when you have quite a lot of points for example recorded by your device.
1.1) answered above
1.2) there is I think internal limit to 50 metres
ad 2) if you use online service, then result is track from many points that define shape of this track AND a few big waypoints that contain information like "here turn left", "here turn ...", etc. so Locus may use them to "real" navigation.
These online services works in very simple way. i send them two points and type of route I want to compute, they send me back definition. So you imagine that I "recomute" GPX track to this solution, I have to say it`s not simply possible, because online service for sure compute track on different way.
ad 3)
YOURS do not compute navigation orders, it`s same as BBRouter - just a plain track from simple points. MapQuest and OSRM may be both tested on web in their online map app, where you may see same results as in Locus
ad second post
----------------
1) currently I don`t have idea how to convert track to route
2) ah sorry, this should be a problem on my side. Problem when I merge two tracks at once. I`ll check it
3) I have no possibility to influence quality of these routing services
Celda: author of BBRouter plan to add these additional information, but It`s quite complicated task that will take some (more) time
---------------
uff, hope this gave you answer to at least some questions. I`m aware that navigation in Locus is not best. Tommi is one of main users that push me to make it better. I`m aware of it, but I still don`t see a simple way where to start :)
Hello Menion
Thanks for your reply and your time to explain all that.
Its good to hear, that guiding has some "intelligence" integrated.
It seemed to work fine.
I think there is a lot of work to do for the routing services you use and I understand, that Locus does not use an own navigation calculation algorithm. This is quite complicated I think.
Nethertheless Locus is great and even the guiding is very good compared to other apps.
Thanks
Hello Menion
Thanks for your reply and your time to explain all that.
Its good to hear, that guiding has some "intelligence" integrated.
It seemed to work fine.
I think there is a lot of work to do for the routing services you use and I understand, that Locus does not use an own navigation calculation algorithm. This is quite complicated I think.
Nethertheless Locus is great and even the guiding is very good compared to other apps.
Thanks
Hi Menion,
just read here after I sent you a mail with title "Locus Guiding Proposal".
I want to push you even harder :) now.
@Joachim: Thank you for this elaborated thread. Similar ideas I also have at least since a year but Locus is such a lot of work for Menion that it is hard for him to invest a huge amount of time on a single feature.
We`ll see what the future brings for Locus and us.
Hi Menion,
just read here after I sent you a mail with title "Locus Guiding Proposal".
I want to push you even harder :) now.
@Joachim: Thank you for this elaborated thread. Similar ideas I also have at least since a year but Locus is such a lot of work for Menion that it is hard for him to invest a huge amount of time on a single feature.
We`ll see what the future brings for Locus and us.
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