Guiding with your ears

Zailor shared this idea 8 years ago
Completed

Today we have the option: "Notify when too far from track"


Fine !


But, am I too far to the right or left ??


It would be very useful if there were two different sounds.


Suggestion:


Imagine yourself sitting in front of a piano, low sound = left, high sound=right


I can already see the headlines in boat magazines:


"Locus navigating your boat through your ears" ;-)


cheers


/zailor

Comments (74)

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or instead of a sound why not using a fix voice comand like:


"please keep left" or ".... right"


simple mp3 sounds in different languages...


Otherwise you have to remember some diffetent beeps:


left, right, approaching POI, cache near.....


complicated...

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Perhaps resurrect an idea from aviation of the 1930s and 1940s.


The LOW FREQUENCY RANGE for navigation.


If you were on one side of a desired course, you heard at intervals-


The Morse Code for the letter "N" ( -.) Dah Dit


If you were on the other side of course, you heard at intervals-


The Morse Code for the letter "A" (.-) Dit Dah


If you were centered on course, you heard-


A continuous tone.


The continuous tone could be set very low in volume.


The volume or the recurr rate of the A and N could increase with distance off-course.


Sounds to me like this would be a battery killer though.


The phone vibrator could be used instead of the speaker..............

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Hi,


i never used guiding sounds... But i guess, it was built for the purpose just as a notification, that you leave the track and then look on the screen, where you are?


cheers, berkley

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Hi again !


One advantage is that you can keep your phone in your pocket without having to take it up and don`t activate the screen,( consumes a lot of battery.)


( I always use a BT headset )


Also good if it rains as it usually does in Sweden ;-)


cheers, zailor

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I almost always use guiding sounds for walking/biking, as my sense for orientation is... hmm..


Therefor I really would like to have a differentiation between too far left or too far right of planned route not to turn on the screen every time,


So if menion just realizes this differentiation it could be up to the user how they will be notified. Beep, dingdong, kuckuck, morse ... or a simple mp3 voicecommand, recorded by yourself e.g.

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I just want to mention, that for this should be nice solution one reported here (post at bottom of topic) https://getsatisfaction.com/locus/top...


- so some combination with TTS system

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you are right - sorry... it ́s the same... I overlooked it...

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why are you sorry? :) Topic I mention was an "Question" and is already closed. I just wanted to say that using TTS for guiding along path is a good idea and because I`m not creator of this idea, I wanted to mention author


So I like this idea. Something similar was already discuss on some places in Locus Forum. I personally should prefer possibility for using TTS instead of some custom sounds for different sides etc .. anyway this is right place for voting on this topic and also discussion about best solution! This idea have my support ...

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Ok TTS is good !


e.g. turn left or turn right repeating every 2s!? when you are out of range


then when you back on track = silence


Otherwise, I agree with Rob, dingdong, kuckuck does not matter as long as you can hear the difference ;-)


cheers


/zailor

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I hope for TTS turn instructions _before_ you`re away from track.


And of coure if I still left the track then it should behave as Zailor proposes.

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Sorry, I have no need for this. We hike on field-marked tracks but when chatting or just dreaming I occasionally miss a mark and then after 100 meters it beeps (to wake me up :) ) and that`s fine.


Guiding will never be enough for an unmarked and unknown track. What you guys want is NAVIGATION along a track.

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I am not talking about navigation, I really mean guide only for hiking and biking. . I only want to get rid of the beeps, and want to hear: e.g. please keep left or ... right. Even after 100 m going wrong. This would avoid turning on the screen and helps saving batterie.


Navigation is a quite different thing. .. but also fine :-)

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Ok Rob, I agree this would be a benefit on a mountainbike doing an unknown and unmarked track.


But I am a bit afraid of Menoin "overloading" this great tool with everything and then some ...


My first concern of the moment is managing an overview of too many tracks but that is a different topic.

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yes, I share your concern. But this is already mentioned under "Map Manager" and some other topics related better overview of tracks in e.g. Subdirectories, categories, ...


You should vote for your favorit solution to become reality.:-)

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I have used Locus Pro for one year and I`m using the Guiding option a lot.


Problem for me is the battery and I think the mainproblem is that I have to turn on the display to see if I`m on the right track.


With this propusal I think I can save a lot of battery


Just turn right or left when I hear the voice without turning on the display


GREAT


I really support this idea


Hakon

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I`ve tested it and if I understand what you mean it works. So, I put my smartphone in my pocket, my headset in my ears and go. Whenever I have to go straight or turn left or turn right , I hear the instruction.


Here`s the discussion/question: http://gsfn.us/t/2utaz

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No Marc, the discussion here is about guiding, not about navigation as in the link to the other topic

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Sorry, I didn`t understand well than ;-)

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GREAT IDEA !


Love to hear turn left - turn right when I drive with my MC in the dessert !!


I`m not using navigation (there are no roads), make my own roads with Routes


Please try to realise this idea


Thanks

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maybe i can collect some votes here for a similar idea:


https://getsatisfaction.com/locus/top...


thx tommi ;)

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just make possible to add a few special markers instead of points. Define 3 markers, like: turn left now, turn right now, go straight ahead. Make them available to put in creating the track, and when you will be getting close to any of these points/markers, Locus will play a predefined TTS voice, just before switching to the next point.

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The first idea I had when reading "Guiding with your ears" was of a stereo sound. A sound on left ear if you have to go left... Just follow the beep. You could even provide an angle with simulated surround.

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Wow. This is futuristic:)

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fifth most wanted feature ... let`s move with it :)


Test version


https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8015949/Locu...


check settings > guiding > track guide notification. There will be new settings "Text-to-speech".


You may test it also ith enabled guiding and just moving with map center. This is anyway just first step, so we should discuss it. I personally prefer TTS usage instead of some weird left/right sounds.Both is possible anyway beep 170° angle is not best idea by me :)

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Just gave it a first try from the sofa.


Great start!


At a first glance I was a bit confused because the TTS said something completely different compared to the guiding line. But as configured, the type of notification is set to "Notify when too far away from track" which matches the TTS output.


TTS in English "30 meters on 3 o`clock" is good, in German it is "30 Meter um 3 o`clock" but should be "30 Meter nach 3 Uhr".


Will it be possible in the further development of this feature to use also "Notify when switching to another point" (which is actually equivalent to https://getsatisfaction.com/locus/top... which is more interesting for me)?

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yes it`s planned. I have bigger idea in my mind. You may see start of it when you create some routable track in Locus. There will be icons with correct routing order, so I have idea to make these points editable and also possibility to add your own. "Navigating" along imported track is anyway more complicated then this, so this is first step


Main question for me is "what to say"


If distance + orientation like now "300 meters on 3 o`clock"


or


distance + bearing difference like "30 degree left and 300 meters"


or


some simple angles like navigation "300 meters slightly left"


or whatever useful :). First option seems best for me, but I`m sure not everyone will know what this mean

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I also would prefer the 1st one. One important question about 300m: Shall I turn to 3 after 300m or shall I move the next 300m in the direction of 3?


Again I would prefer the 1st one.


But after the turn there should be something like "straight on for the next 500m" in case the next point is "far away" (to be defined).

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it`s mean


"now turn by 3 o`clock (so turn by 90 degree) and go 300 metres"


I`m sure there will be better way how to say it, right? Any native speaker? thanks :)

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Can TTS read and speak some prepared language pack textfiles?


So we can write some text files for each language.


Locus send a command and TTS read a translation file.


I`m on a wrong way? :)

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not directly some text files, but I was also thinking about some text files with defined parameters specially prepared for TTS. Like predefined pairs key/value, that will contain exactly texts that TTS should speak. Don`t know if it`s same in German, but Czech TTS speak sometimes really a huge nonsenses :)

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hm TTS works fine in the most of situations. i`m using SVOX (don`t know if that makes a difference). In the setup of SVOX i can write a few lines of text to check it. So I thought TTS can repeat the text also simply for Locus.

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little bit improved version. Main change is that TTS is allowed also for "Notify if change to another point"


This idea is going to be more then similar to this one https://getsatisfaction.com/locus/top... I think, what about merging them together? Both are about way, how to navigate along some track isn`t it?


And please, don`t take current solution it too seriously. It`s really a beta.


https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8015949/Locu...

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Again gave it a try with the new version. Focussed on "Notify if change to another point" which should more or less be https://getsatisfaction.com/locus/top....


In general good but few things:


- It says "in 15meters " but even if I move very slow on the map it`s more like 10meters; at least compared with what the text for the guiding line tells me


- Is there a setting to change the 15meters to a different value? 15meters might be o.k. for a hiker but not for a biker.


- It ignored one of my points on the track and immediately jumped to the next one (both guiding line and navigation instruction). I sent you the track and instructions per mail.

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I don`t fully understand "15 metres". There is no such value forced in Locus. When switch to another point is defined in settings (guiding), so this value in your settings, should be +- value you should hear.


So if you have defined ""set next point" on 100m, then you should hear voice command when you`re below 100m to current points (so in the moment, Locus switch to next guiding point)


thanks for track. It`s so small that it really depend on "set next point" value. You have set this on 15m?

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Ah, I only saw the value which can be selected for "notify when too far away from track". Now I see also "Set next point" which wass set to 10m in my test, so my observation regarding the distance when it jumps to the next point matches the setting.


I did a new test (with same smale track) but now with 20m for "Set next point".


Now it jumps 20m before the point to the next one but TTS says still always 15 meters !?


Btw. auto-select best point is enabled.

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Menion, were you able to reproduce my problems?


1) always 15m


2) turn left for point 7 missing if following the track I`ve sent you

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ah sorry tommi, I wasn`t playing with your track a lot. I just tested it one and because this track is quite complicated and very very short, I throw it to trash :)


System i create need to have longer distances. I set up limit on voice commands 50m, so you`ll hear voice mostly once per 50m, no more. There is anyway many more conditions by which I compute if say something or not anyway count that on short complicated paths, like one you use for testing, it will probably never work correctly as normal computed route


new test version if someone want to try is here https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8015949/Locu...


I was yesterday on small trip (around 10km) to test it and seems to work surprisingly well :)

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Tried the latest version now and want to make few more comments to this feature which is going to become really a highlight of Locus.


1) In recent coments I wrote sometimes about 15meters. I misunderstood, it was always 50 meters.


2) Why fix 50m?


50m is a bit long for a hiker, o.k. for a biker but too short for a car driver.


The setting is already there: "Set next point".


Then it would work in the same way as the guiding line.


3) TTS missing for arrived at destination.


4) A behaviour I love from classic Locus navigation is automatic switch between navigation and guiding mode (with notification when too far away from track) and vice versa. Up to now I could only have a beep or sound if too far away from track. Now this is working with TTS. Great!!!


5) Could you make the new navigation switch in same way between "switching to another point" and "notification when too far away from track" and vice versa? Otherwise there will be no more instructions at all if you lost the track...


This wold be the cherry on the cake!!!

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Made an outdoor test now and I can confirm that it works quite well - in the current version if points are separated more than 50meters from each other.


6) If points are separated less than about 50m it leads to sometimes wrong information via TTS. I understand that it is difficult to summarize instructions for two points with little distance. The problem can be avoided in some cases by setting artifical points (e.g. you actually would need 2 points but decide to set only one but maybe a little bit off the actual path). If Locus could handle a smaller minimum distance between points this problem could also be avoided in even more cases, cf. 2). However it makes no sense to set points with distance smaller than GPS accuracy.


7) There is a text "After 100m " which is later repeated as "After 50m ". At least sometimes (I`m not sure because I didn`t check it on the display always) the text for distance of 100m from waypoint is already spoken at an actual distance of about 140m (checked with the distance information on the guiding line and confirmed with the distance circle which crossed the route long before the next waypoint).

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Hey guys, is no one except me testing this brilliant feature?


Help Menion to complete this wonderful feature!

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:) thanks. I`ll do some more small updates to it and release new version probably in Thursday. Then will be some more reactions

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Menion, please add some intents being fired up, after there is a new guiding message. This could be captured by some external app which will make use of the messages ( for example send them to LiveView watch, and show in form of pictures representing the turning direction )

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Hi, Menion,


your link to the test version doesn`t work (anymore?).


Cheers!


Wilfried

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elmuSSo, there were already before some request on Tasker integration. This is similar right? Remind me this when this improved guiding will works fine. Then we should discuss about some specialities. I have no problem to add it into Locus, but later

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Can anyone tell me how can I use this function? I checked text to speech option in guiding options, but when I`m guiding along simple track nothing happens.

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sorry Robin99 for late response. It`s anyway already in second "how to" topic here https://getsatisfaction.com/locus/top...


I`m marking this topic as completed, but expect that this feature still need improvements. Discussion may of course continue here


Anyway main confirmation that idea is completed may come from Zailor, as topic creator. I hope you like current system, because I think that using TTS is best way. Thanks to it, you know how far you`re from track and also under which angle to go, to get back on track.


So to sumarize:


---------------------


using is done by "menu > settings > guiding > tracks > notification settings"


and enabled "Notify when too far away from track" and "Text-to-speech"


Future progress:


----------------------


I would like to keep this topic to discussion about future improvements


This nice topic https://getsatisfaction.com/locus/top... may be as a "How to page", later maybe moved on doku.wiki site

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Hi,


i do some tests "guiding along a track" ;-))


"Notify when switching to another point" works and i hear the TTS-voice.


If i switch to


"Notify when too far away from track"


i hear no voice if the distance to the track is more than 50 meters.


I ́ve tested it outdoor with gps and indoor moving map by hand.


What can i do?

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Hi Wolfgang, do you use Locus with English version?


There it`s working for me but I have the problem you described with the German version, too.

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hi guys. When you tap in dialog where you define notification on button "Play" and it works, then it should work :). Are you really in bigger distance from track then you defined as minimal for notification. Also count that you have to count orthoginal distance to nearest point on track, not distance visible along guiding line

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Hi Menion, the Play button works in both English and German.


"Notify when switching to another point" works with TTS in both English and German.


"Notify when too far away from track" works with TTS in English but not in German.

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Hi Menion,


"Notify when too far away from track"


i tried it also in german, french and polnish but it only works in english

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On saturday morning I planned a bicycle tour (about 80km) with a friend into an area we`ve never been before.


I created a simple track with Locus based on vector map with cycle routes and let guide me ("switching to another point") using the earphone and the instructions were correct and we had a beautiful and relaxed tour. Only about 5 times I checked in Locus wether I got the instruction right but it was always o.k.


This feature is really wonderful!


However, my earlier requests for improvement stay fully valid.

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Hi !


What am I`m doing wrong ???


I make my own new track, then when I should try this exellent feuture the lady only tell my 730 meters 4 hour then I go to the other side of the track she say for example 840 meters 5 hour . No left or right ;-(


I have a HTC Wildfire 2.2.1 os and it sucks


Please tell me whats wrong because I really think this is a great option !!

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Think of a classical watch lying on the ground in front of you: 12 hour means straight forward, 6 hour means straight backwards, 9 hour turn to the left, 3 hour turn to the right and so on.

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Hi Hakon,


i think you select


"Notify when too far away from track" so you heare 730 meters 4 hour.


if you want to hear for example "100 meter left" you have to select


"Notify when switching to another point"

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Hi everyone in this topic,


after a 250 km tour in the Eifel near Cologne/Germany I`m thrilled with "guiding with your ears", because it works wonderfully.


But, as always, it also depends on your settings. For cycling I experimented with "Set next point" (in "Guiding) and found 80m to be best.


There`s just one little thing I`d like to have changed: after having been told to turn right or left, the voice always tells you "straight", which, I think, is obvious and after repetition a little annoying. So if it would be possible to cut that out, "guiding with your ears" would be perfect!

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I think this "straight" comes only once per point, doesn`t it?


Did you use a recorded track for guiding or a did you create one by hand?


In the latter case I would only define points if there are turns in the course where you need instructions. Or an example for the other way round: I wouldn`t create multiple points for a straight part of the course.

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In guiding the notifications are obviously triggered by the change of angles to the next point, so with a small angle the notification is "bear" (right or left), with medium "turn", with the greatest "sharp", and with around 0 "straight" - and it doesn`t matter, in which way the track was created. In any case, "straight" is unnecessary and distracting.

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Can this be correct ??


If I want to know when I`m to far away from track I should select:


"Notify when switching to another point"


Anyway I tried "Notify when switching to another point"


But for sure, then I can here the voice when switching waypoint and not when I`m to far away from track.


Ok, I`m sitting in my sofa and simulate, but I still belive this option must work !?


What should I expect the TTL voice telling me? Meters from track and angel how get there ?


Thanks


Hakon

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Ok, I didn,t saw Tommis answer above ;-(


So now I see (hear) ;-)

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- "Notify..." are two different modes.


- I think it`s more meters from next point on track and angel to get there.

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Thanks Tommi !


Now I will continue and simulate in my sofa ,-)

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hi guys,


three things


1. nice that you use this feature and seems it works for you, good :)


2. problem with "Straight" is that exists cases, when you`ll need to say this. And if I exclude this, then you should miss important information. So that`s why I added this.


3. as you may see, current "definition" is really confusing. To be true, it`s confusing even for me :) So I`ll for sure do some GUI changes, to make it more obvious what every settings do. Till then, good luck with settings and enjoy your ride ;)

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Hi Menion,


good to hear that you will work on this feature.


But the comments in the last months did not only complain about the GUI so I would appreciate that you take also these comments into account (there were several from my side (not only the one with the a bit artifical though correct gpx).

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Hi Menion, I see in 2.7.3.5 that you started working on this feature as there is now a balloon text displayed in parallel to the spoken instructions (though never requested I think this is a good idea!). This works in English for both notification modes. In German both text and speech still don`t appear for "Notify when too far away from track".

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tommi, ignore this .. version you test have one invalid switch inside, so it works as my debug version, not as just testing version (it`s just more testing :) )


work on improvements is needed and also planned, but it not yet started

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Oho...the "Lorentz system" or "Knickebein". Original from the 30`s. Very interesting but not too happy to strictly follow a track and continuous tone and that for 50 km`s or more ?

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Read the later comments and you`ll see it`s much better with spoken directions.

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Hi tommi,


I did more tests today and I do agree that the TTS system works very very fine ! And I agree it is a fantastic guiding aid.


But TTS language must be the same as in the Locus program language otherwise only a big silence follows and so bad test conclusions !


However I noticed this older guiding system and this triggered me and I could not resist to (positively) comment. This method was used for airplanes landing help (originaly) (= follow straight line tracking). I just picked this up because of my interests in readings about these older pre WW2 basic techniques ;-).


73 Willy.

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Hi Willy,


I seem to remember that the no more taking part forum member Starman has also a certain affinity to avionics which explains these ideas you both have.

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I`m glad to announce new BETA version of "Navigation" mode for imported or recorded tracks. If anyone want to check testing version, here is a link http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?to...

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HI, I`m a bit confused about the meaning of clock statement in "too far from track" message. I guess it gives an angle, but angle of what against what? Sorry, I didnot find it anywhere in the documentation. Thanks for explaining.

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It`s the angle against your bearing direction: e.g 9 hours means left, 6 hours means back.

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Correct Tommi

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