Increased cursor size & visibility
Current Locus cursor (in)visibility. Can you see it?
I have a serious visibility issue with Locus cursors. They simply do not work well outdoors, let alone on a moving bike or in a car. I know you can draw your own stuff here to get around the lousy-contrast issues, something fat bright orange with a fat black outline is required outdoors. But I`d want it at least 300%(!) larger as well. Is that even possible?
I would like to suggest a different system to the current hdpi/xhdpi/etc stuff. The cursor source file could be a single large png with a decent resolution (lets say 512x512 or even 1024x1024). Locus would then have a setting
"cursor size: XX%"
which describes the size of the cursor relative to the display size. Let it default to 20% or something and scale down the image accordingly when loading.
This way, every phone will have the same relative cursor size, regardless of its resolution, of its dpi setting or of its ui mode (tablet/phone). I know Android has its own system for scaling user interface elements and it might work reasonably well for toolbars/texts. A cursor on a moving map is a different thing though. It needs to scale differently and independently.
I like this idea 
>"Current Locus cursor (in)visibility. Can you see it? "
nope - but the question is..
who use it? ;)
>"Current Locus cursor (in)visibility. Can you see it? "
nope - but the question is..
who use it? ;)
Yes, I can see it and I found it easily because it is in the map center (unless you use the rotating map setting, then it is about a third down.).
And of course when you have a gps-fix and you are moving, you have an arrow.
Yes, I can see it and I found it easily because it is in the map center (unless you use the rotating map setting, then it is about a third down.).
And of course when you have a gps-fix and you are moving, you have an arrow.
The arrow is just as bad. Try mounting your phone on a bike, turn on bright sunshine, wear sun glasses and sweat a lot :).
The arrow is just as bad. Try mounting your phone on a bike, turn on bright sunshine, wear sun glasses and sweat a lot :).
>"The arrow is just as bad"
which one?
try this:
from
http://forum.locusmap.eu/viewtopic.ph...
or from shop
or
this:
http://forum.locusmap.eu/viewtopic.ph...
>"The arrow is just as bad"
which one?
try this:
from
http://forum.locusmap.eu/viewtopic.ph...
or from shop
or
this:
http://forum.locusmap.eu/viewtopic.ph...
Just to clarify what I mean: This would be a proper "outdoor" cursor, suitable for difficult conditions.
Sitting at home in front of your desktop is obviously not a difficult condition. Neither is hiking, where you normally hold the device much closer to your eyes and it doesnt shake a lot. Mountainbiking for example is a difficult condition.
Can I somehow do this with Locus? Regardless what I tried, my cursors never get bigger than a toolbar button. That is simply not enough.
Just to clarify what I mean: This would be a proper "outdoor" cursor, suitable for difficult conditions.
Sitting at home in front of your desktop is obviously not a difficult condition. Neither is hiking, where you normally hold the device much closer to your eyes and it doesnt shake a lot. Mountainbiking for example is a difficult condition.
Can I somehow do this with Locus? Regardless what I tried, my cursors never get bigger than a toolbar button. That is simply not enough.
I tried your cursors obviously. They arent really much different from the default ones in size or contrast.
I tried your cursors obviously. They arent really much different from the default ones in size or contrast.
:D
EDIT: ... OK, there are some size limits that apply on such cursors ... I`ll these check numbers
:D
EDIT: ... OK, there are some size limits that apply on such cursors ... I`ll these check numbers
WOW, you got one! nice, and so cute, but visible now! hehe
Can you give me the link to the gfx plz
WOW, you got one! nice, and so cute, but visible now! hehe
Can you give me the link to the gfx plz
Cursor link is http://www.stuntz.com/ZorroCursor.psd
You need Photoshop to work on it though. All the 3d & glowing & size thingies are just layer effects, the basic pixel raster is only a tiny boring single color image.
Cursor link is http://www.stuntz.com/ZorroCursor.psd
You need Photoshop to work on it though. All the 3d & glowing & size thingies are just layer effects, the basic pixel raster is only a tiny boring single color image.
I was just thinking... if Locus handled cursor scaling independently from the other user interface stuff, we could have funny settings things like
cursor min size: _5_% of display
cursor max size: _20_% of display
cursor max size at: _30_ km/h
the cursor would automatically grow when you move faster to allow proper viewing at a single glance.
when you`re stopped, it would be relatively small to allow better map viewing.
I was just thinking... if Locus handled cursor scaling independently from the other user interface stuff, we could have funny settings things like
cursor min size: _5_% of display
cursor max size: _20_% of display
cursor max size at: _30_ km/h
the cursor would automatically grow when you move faster to allow proper viewing at a single glance.
when you`re stopped, it would be relatively small to allow better map viewing.
so we should hope, there are many votes for this idea...
so we should hope, there are many votes for this idea...
hmm you`re crazy (and btw. still only one vote? Gynta, c`mon ...) :)
As I look into code, there is limit on 96px * DPI of your screen, so I again forget what HTC you have, but it will be 1.5 or 2.0, so in case of 2.0, it`s max 192px
So would it be enough to increase this value? As I look on your image, you`ll need around 3 times more :)
hmm you`re crazy (and btw. still only one vote? Gynta, c`mon ...) :)
As I look into code, there is limit on 96px * DPI of your screen, so I again forget what HTC you have, but it will be 1.5 or 2.0, so in case of 2.0, it`s max 192px
So would it be enough to increase this value? As I look on your image, you`ll need around 3 times more :)
I can set the DPI for every App individually (Samsung Galaxy Note with paranoiddroid phone/tablet hybrid rom). Locus right now runs quite defaultish: phone ui mode at 320dpi iirc.
Why is there a pixel limit at all? But yeah... gimme 512x512 and I`ll be happy. Although I am a bit confused about these hdpi/xhdpi/etcpp directories and how Android decides to scale my cursor depending on the apps dpi setting.
I still think cursor scaling should be under user control, not under Android control. It should not scale with the rest of the UI like fonts or toolbars. The map display doesnt scale either and the cursor sits right on top of it, after all. It is basically a part of the map.
I can set the DPI for every App individually (Samsung Galaxy Note with paranoiddroid phone/tablet hybrid rom). Locus right now runs quite defaultish: phone ui mode at 320dpi iirc.
Why is there a pixel limit at all? But yeah... gimme 512x512 and I`ll be happy. Although I am a bit confused about these hdpi/xhdpi/etcpp directories and how Android decides to scale my cursor depending on the apps dpi setting.
I still think cursor scaling should be under user control, not under Android control. It should not scale with the rest of the UI like fonts or toolbars. The map display doesnt scale either and the cursor sits right on top of it, after all. It is basically a part of the map.
every pixels counts. Every pixel take some memory and I really don`t want to receive emails like "hey, I just set my new super monster cursors and Locus is still crashing". You know what I mean ...
Anyway I changed for you limits from 92px to 256px. I`ll not give more. If you have set DPI to 320, it`s possible that your multiplier is 2.0, so you can load 512x512 pixels icons. Anyway count that I warn you and I`ll not fix OutOfMemory errors :)
And scaling should not be under user control. Everything in Locus is scaling by user phone display size and density. That`s just only way how simply prepare working application for all phones without need to everyone set some weird percents ...
every pixels counts. Every pixel take some memory and I really don`t want to receive emails like "hey, I just set my new super monster cursors and Locus is still crashing". You know what I mean ...
Anyway I changed for you limits from 92px to 256px. I`ll not give more. If you have set DPI to 320, it`s possible that your multiplier is 2.0, so you can load 512x512 pixels icons. Anyway count that I warn you and I`ll not fix OutOfMemory errors :)
And scaling should not be under user control. Everything in Locus is scaling by user phone display size and density. That`s just only way how simply prepare working application for all phones without need to everyone set some weird percents ...
That change didnt make it into 2.5.2 did it? Because my cursor (256x256) doesnt load. I can select it in prefs but Locus still displays the default cursor. Would an xhdpi directory be enough or do i need all the others as well?
Configurable cursor size would not be weird at all imho... but hey... different opinions is what makes this forum fun :)
That change didnt make it into 2.5.2 did it? Because my cursor (256x256) doesnt load. I can select it in prefs but Locus still displays the default cursor. Would an xhdpi directory be enough or do i need all the others as well?
Configurable cursor size would not be weird at all imho... but hey... different opinions is what makes this forum fun :)
no it didn`t. I did it yesterday morning so you have to wait till next test version or release ....
... hmm xdpi ... I have to check if this "new" type is supported, maybe not :) (and fix it)
no it didn`t. I did it yesterday morning so you have to wait till next test version or release ....
... hmm xdpi ... I have to check if this "new" type is supported, maybe not :) (and fix it)
Guys. I was also planning to write about this. My idea is to make vertical and horizontal lines across the whole screen. The lines will be crossing at the user`s position. This will be clearly visible. I know it will need a new programming aproach to the issue. But this will be much more visible then any icon. Big icons are also bad, because they are covering a lot of map details.
Guys. I was also planning to write about this. My idea is to make vertical and horizontal lines across the whole screen. The lines will be crossing at the user`s position. This will be clearly visible. I know it will need a new programming aproach to the issue. But this will be much more visible then any icon. Big icons are also bad, because they are covering a lot of map details.
This is also a conclusion from my bike trips in the full sun. The icons are often too much camuflaged on the background of roads/cities/mountains/forest. And the straight lines are more distinguishable from the background than icons. Maybe the lines should not get too close to the center point, or maybe there should not be the small circle in the center to clearly see the the terrain nearest to your position. all this is to be discussed
This is also a conclusion from my bike trips in the full sun. The icons are often too much camuflaged on the background of roads/cities/mountains/forest. And the straight lines are more distinguishable from the background than icons. Maybe the lines should not get too close to the center point, or maybe there should not be the small circle in the center to clearly see the the terrain nearest to your position. all this is to be discussed
I tried the new cursor sizes with the latest market versions and 256x256 works beautifully for me. Except there seems to be a problem with ic_rotate_arrow.png at that size. I dont really understand what the north arrow has to do with cursors anyway. Shouldnt it be something else entirely?
http://www.stuntz.com/ZorroCursor.psd
I tried the new cursor sizes with the latest market versions and 256x256 works beautifully for me. Except there seems to be a problem with ic_rotate_arrow.png at that size. I dont really understand what the north arrow has to do with cursors anyway. Shouldnt it be something else entirely?
http://www.stuntz.com/ZorroCursor.psd
ps... and I would still LOVE if cursors would scale independently from the rest of the UI. They have nothing to do at all with toolbar buttons or with font sizes in settings windows or with anything else really :).
ps... and I would still LOVE if cursors would scale independently from the rest of the UI. They have nothing to do at all with toolbar buttons or with font sizes in settings windows or with anything else really :).
With the bigger cursor sizes, you could draw a large cursor that is visible while moving (ic_location_move.png, maybe even just a huge crosshair with 512x512) and a small one while stopped (ic_location_gps.png, ic_location_network.png). Not exactly the same as your line suggestion, but it can "work around" the problem of bad visibility while moving and still not cover too much map data when stopped.
With the bigger cursor sizes, you could draw a large cursor that is visible while moving (ic_location_move.png, maybe even just a huge crosshair with 512x512) and a small one while stopped (ic_location_gps.png, ic_location_network.png). Not exactly the same as your line suggestion, but it can "work around" the problem of bad visibility while moving and still not cover too much map data when stopped.
sorry... proper link is
http://www.stuntz.com/cursors_zorro.zip
which also includes the .psd for your own experiments. enable/disable the layers and save the pngs for example via Photoshops File/Save for Web... menu
sorry... proper link is
http://www.stuntz.com/cursors_zorro.zip
which also includes the .psd for your own experiments. enable/disable the layers and save the pngs for example via Photoshops File/Save for Web... menu
hm... and if menion would remove the cursor size restriction completely and scale it independently, your "lines" mode might simply be possible with the current system.
hm... and if menion would remove the cursor size restriction completely and scale it independently, your "lines" mode might simply be possible with the current system.
Fat outdoor cursors. They show more problems with Locus though:
Distance and Bearing placement is hardly ideal. Clashes with cursor and clashes with dynamic altitude. I would think Distance and Bearing belong into a seperate box that appears in some corner (much like the north arrow) when needed. They arent really cool so close to the cursor. Just an idea. Dynamic altitude... I dont know. Leave at cursor? Move to same "dynamic text box" as Distance and Bearing?
Rendering any text onto the map is pointless without an outline. The scale display has an outline now it seems. Same should apply to dynamic altitude.
Drawing a single-pixel line onto a map (line to gps) is pointless on modern displays. It needs to scale with dpi values... eg at least 2 or 3 pixels thick on anything hdpi and better.
Fat outdoor cursors. They show more problems with Locus though:
Distance and Bearing placement is hardly ideal. Clashes with cursor and clashes with dynamic altitude. I would think Distance and Bearing belong into a seperate box that appears in some corner (much like the north arrow) when needed. They arent really cool so close to the cursor. Just an idea. Dynamic altitude... I dont know. Leave at cursor? Move to same "dynamic text box" as Distance and Bearing?
Rendering any text onto the map is pointless without an outline. The scale display has an outline now it seems. Same should apply to dynamic altitude.
Drawing a single-pixel line onto a map (line to gps) is pointless on modern displays. It needs to scale with dpi values... eg at least 2 or 3 pixels thick on anything hdpi and better.
> joeloc "I would think Distance and Bearing belong into a seperate box that appears in some corner..."
if this should be a new idea, I would vote for it !
because i never can figure out the right color for this text and i never see it very well. If the information is in a box with a grey background and white text on the corner - i allways can read the information.
> joeloc "I would think Distance and Bearing belong into a seperate box that appears in some corner..."
if this should be a new idea, I would vote for it !
because i never can figure out the right color for this text and i never see it very well. If the information is in a box with a grey background and white text on the corner - i allways can read the information.
Menion probably only uses "boring" maps (eg osm) in his daily life, so he doesnt realize any visibility issues with "real" maps (eg from kompass). Real maps already use every available color in the spectrum, so rendering text directly onto the map will always suck. You either need an outline (wider than just a single pixel!) or a box.
I will turn this into a proper suggestion so it wont stay buried in a comment in a sub thread.
Menion probably only uses "boring" maps (eg osm) in his daily life, so he doesnt realize any visibility issues with "real" maps (eg from kompass). Real maps already use every available color in the spectrum, so rendering text directly onto the map will always suck. You either need an outline (wider than just a single pixel!) or a box.
I will turn this into a proper suggestion so it wont stay buried in a comment in a sub thread.
http://www.stuntz.com/cursors_zorro.zip
I updated my monstercursors a little. The "stopped" cursors are 80% opaque now to allow a little "see-through" when working with the map. The moving-cursor is 100% for maximum visibility. The north arrow works too now, although Locus apparently has a size problem there. Menion, can you tell me the size restrictions for the north arrow? Or lift them?
Anyway, just did a little test bike ride in bright sunshine and boy does it make a difference. Cant imagine how I ever lived with the invisible default cursor :).
The cursors will probably be too large on anything but a Galaxy Note. I am not planning to go into the hdpi/mdpi/xhdpi mess and provide differently scaled versions since I believe this to be inherently wrong. Map cursors have nothing to do with the general UI and it doesnt make sense to autoscale them in the same way as fonts or toolbars. You`re welcome to change colors/sizes/etc yourself though, the .psd for Photoshop is included in the archive.
Move:
Cross:
GPS:
Network:
Northarrow:
http://www.stuntz.com/cursors_zorro.zip
I updated my monstercursors a little. The "stopped" cursors are 80% opaque now to allow a little "see-through" when working with the map. The moving-cursor is 100% for maximum visibility. The north arrow works too now, although Locus apparently has a size problem there. Menion, can you tell me the size restrictions for the north arrow? Or lift them?
Anyway, just did a little test bike ride in bright sunshine and boy does it make a difference. Cant imagine how I ever lived with the invisible default cursor :).
The cursors will probably be too large on anything but a Galaxy Note. I am not planning to go into the hdpi/mdpi/xhdpi mess and provide differently scaled versions since I believe this to be inherently wrong. Map cursors have nothing to do with the general UI and it doesnt make sense to autoscale them in the same way as fonts or toolbars. You`re welcome to change colors/sizes/etc yourself though, the .psd for Photoshop is included in the archive.
Move:
Cross:
GPS:
Network:
Northarrow:
Hi Guys,
It’s fascinating for me to read this topic. Lots of ideas and personal views. I agree with you, that cursor is not perfect but the question is what is the correct solution? The weakness of Locus is its multifunctional use so we need to find cursor for every situation (is it possible?).
I don’t think that bigger is better; I also dislike 3D or shading effect. I’ll discuss it with Menion in next days – I guess that some type of outlined images could be the proper solution.
PV
Hi Guys,
It’s fascinating for me to read this topic. Lots of ideas and personal views. I agree with you, that cursor is not perfect but the question is what is the correct solution? The weakness of Locus is its multifunctional use so we need to find cursor for every situation (is it possible?).
I don’t think that bigger is better; I also dislike 3D or shading effect. I’ll discuss it with Menion in next days – I guess that some type of outlined images could be the proper solution.
PV
You will never be able to find one cursor that suits everybody. Geocaching is completely different from riding a bike for example. When you hike, you hold the device much closer to your eyes and you dont shake. You can also turn your body in a way that sunlight is not disturbing too much. A small cursor is good here, since it has the advantage of not covering too many map pixels.
When you`re biking, the device is mounted on your handlebars, a lot further away, it shakes, you are probably wearing sun glasses and sweat a lot. You basically want a huge high contrast thingy which can be easily seen from far away under difficult conditions.
I think the best you can do is to ship a few "normal" cursors and a few "larger" ones with Locus and make selecting those really easy, eg by showing a preview image in settings selection list.
Being able to adjust the size of each cursor manually would greatly improve each cursors usefulness on different devices for different sports, but menion already dismissed that idea :).
You will never be able to find one cursor that suits everybody. Geocaching is completely different from riding a bike for example. When you hike, you hold the device much closer to your eyes and you dont shake. You can also turn your body in a way that sunlight is not disturbing too much. A small cursor is good here, since it has the advantage of not covering too many map pixels.
When you`re biking, the device is mounted on your handlebars, a lot further away, it shakes, you are probably wearing sun glasses and sweat a lot. You basically want a huge high contrast thingy which can be easily seen from far away under difficult conditions.
I think the best you can do is to ship a few "normal" cursors and a few "larger" ones with Locus and make selecting those really easy, eg by showing a preview image in settings selection list.
Being able to adjust the size of each cursor manually would greatly improve each cursors usefulness on different devices for different sports, but menion already dismissed that idea :).
3d effect and outer shade arent there just for fun btw. I use them because they do not normally exist in topographic maps. They make the cursor stick out and extremely visible immediately, even on very colorful maps from www.kompass.at or ign france.
But thats nothing Locus needs to concern itself with. Those effects are simply in the image.
3d effect and outer shade arent there just for fun btw. I use them because they do not normally exist in topographic maps. They make the cursor stick out and extremely visible immediately, even on very colorful maps from www.kompass.at or ign france.
But thats nothing Locus needs to concern itself with. Those effects are simply in the image.
I understand that specific situation require specific cursor and I really appreciate your comments about UI based on your outdoor “testing” There is nothing better than real test in real environment! Thanks for it.
But I probably didn’t express my ideas correctly. There are lots of users who never switch cursor to the different type then default. So the idea was try to find more suitable default cursor.
I agree with Menion (to dismiss scalable cursor) but I can imagine some type of settings menu where user can simply switch the default cursor from list of predesigned cursor (as you suggested). In this list can be placed your supershading3d cursor but I don’t want it as a default :))
I understand that specific situation require specific cursor and I really appreciate your comments about UI based on your outdoor “testing” There is nothing better than real test in real environment! Thanks for it.
But I probably didn’t express my ideas correctly. There are lots of users who never switch cursor to the different type then default. So the idea was try to find more suitable default cursor.
I agree with Menion (to dismiss scalable cursor) but I can imagine some type of settings menu where user can simply switch the default cursor from list of predesigned cursor (as you suggested). In this list can be placed your supershading3d cursor but I don’t want it as a default :))
Of course not as default... when reading this forum, it seems to me that at least 90% of Locus users are geocachers & hikers, they wouldnt appreciate a fat cursor.
If your aim is to have "the best" default cursor that fits as many usage cases as possible, automatic cursor scaling with speed with reasonable defaults would be the way to go imho. But it seems nobody likes that idea :).
Of course not as default... when reading this forum, it seems to me that at least 90% of Locus users are geocachers & hikers, they wouldnt appreciate a fat cursor.
If your aim is to have "the best" default cursor that fits as many usage cases as possible, automatic cursor scaling with speed with reasonable defaults would be the way to go imho. But it seems nobody likes that idea :).
bug: locus pro scales my huge cursors into something very tiny. locus testing versions handle them fine.
bug: locus pro scales my huge cursors into something very tiny. locus testing versions handle them fine.
this is weird. Are you sure you`re not in pro version testing some other cursors version? I have just downloaded them from link above and they`re big as expected ...
this is weird. Are you sure you`re not in pro version testing some other cursors version? I have just downloaded them from link above and they`re big as expected ...
can confirm
still works here on SGS2
can confirm
still works here on SGS2
ok... please ignore me. i had an older pro version (2.4.2) installed which somehow did not get updated. silly me. it probably works in more current versions.
ok... please ignore me. i had an older pro version (2.4.2) installed which somehow did not get updated. silly me. it probably works in more current versions.
Guys... we have almost 2016 meanwhile and we still need PhotoShop to migrate Locus settings from one phone to another. Isn't it about time to have a cursor size setting now?
Guys... we have almost 2016 meanwhile and we still need PhotoShop to migrate Locus settings from one phone to another. Isn't it about time to have a cursor size setting now?
I firstly wanted to "ignore" this your shout into dark ... but well. You are right. Settings added directly into selector of icons.
I firstly wanted to "ignore" this your shout into dark ... but well. You are right. Settings added directly into selector of icons.
Replies have been locked on this page!