Navigation using BRouter?

tommi ●

Yes, that`s correct.

BRouter only creates tracks w/o waypoints for navigation

instructions.

However a feature called "Navigation on all tracks" is available in test versions: http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?to... Version 2.17.1.3

Description: http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?to...

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Bert Crommar ●

In the new version Locus free 2.17.3,(I posses Locus Pro 2.17.2) I just don`t find the feature "Navigation on all tracks". Can you explain?

Thanks.

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tommi ●

Hm Bert, did you read behind the link to Description given above?

There is stated:

How does it work:

1. you need latest test version of Locus 2.14.1.11+

2. simply display track on map, tap on it and under Guide section, will be Navigation test button. Use it

3. locus will generate navigation orders along the track and allow to enable classic voice navigation

So, you can handle this as usual with "normal" navigation in the first place. However you can only expect indication on turns on the track, there is no map knowledge behind which would tell it`s only a turn but no crossing and therefore no indication is needed.

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Menion ●

Hi,

I today think to publish this feature also to public Locus version (http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?to...) , so if you don`t want to play with testing versions, you will have chance to test it on real version probably at the end of week

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Bert Crommar ●

Hello Menion,

You might remember me from about one year ago.

The ability of locus to calculate navigation off-line is a great step forward.

Tomorow I shall be testing it in real with the testing version.

What I know yet right now: -when planning trips over 400km you get a 60s time-out.

-when recalculation happens(leaving track) --> navigation becomes guiding even when you return on new calculated track.

-the download off the needed files takes as much memory as the maps present.(In my case 4GB 0°E-> 35°E, 35°N-> 50°N)

I shall report over the test tomorow.

Bert Crommar.

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Georg D ●

Concerning the 60sec timeout: They seem not to be relevant when using from-via-avoid-target routings instead of simple from-to-routings. It's explained e.g. in http://www.com-magazin.de/praxis/android/offline-routing-rad-wandertouren-465807.html

(if you don't understand German, use Google Translate or the like).

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Bert Crommar ●

Hello,

Here the report of a 100 km test-drive in the region Manavgat-Serik(Turkey).

In general: it works but it can very difficult be used.

By calculation there was several times the message "From not mapped", this despite of 4 GB on data and Mapsforge Vector maps where indicating we were on a road.

Further the app changing from navigation to guiding --> there is need of complex intervention to get it navigating again.(unusable)

Menion you once told me I had to stay on the subject, now I am going to tell you the same. Navigation is navigation, and Guiding is guiding.

What do I mean by this, just separate them. Place all the servers leading to Navigation under navigation(Mapquest, Cloudmadde), and all the servers leading to guidance under guidance(Yours, BRouter, OSRM). By the way OSRM is completely unusable.

If you make one of these suitable for Navigation, see they stay navigating as long as you are on a road. When you are off-road guiding is OK, But navigation has to restart automatically as soon you are on road.

Further conclusions: the tracks calculated by BRouter seem acceptable. When you make navigation along this track, the received directions are acceptable.

The data used by BRouter are not as explecid as the maps of Mapsforge.

When you leave the track the app changes irrevocable to guiding creating problems mentioned above.

Recalculation is taking very much time, it seems to me much more than 60 s, what makes it unusable.

Further it is very anoying when you run into the 60 s time-out, leave the choice: go on or stop.

I hope this report helps you installing Navigation for all the servers on the Pro version.

Thanks at forehand.

Bert Crommar.

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Celda ●

I have also tested about the same recently but have discussed with Menion in a Czech thread (http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?to...).

>Further the app changing from navigation to guiding --> there is need of complex >intervention to get it navigating again.(unusable)

I assume this is just temporary - BRouter generates just a route/track without explicit navigation instructions. The Locus version 2.17.4 introduced the possibility to estimate and add the navigation instructions to such a route/track by Locus itself, which is just being tested (Beta). If the tests are successful (and your and my experiments look promising) I assume Menion is going to add navigation instructions to BRouter automatically every time and there will be no need to switch BRouter to guiding every time route has to be recalculated.

>Navigation is navigation, and Guiding is guiding

I fully agree. In fact there are even three different categories:

1) Guiding to a waypoint

2) Guiding along a track/route already available

3) Navigation, where either

- complete track/route is available already

or

- track/route is available already but has to be completed first (add navigation instructions)

or

- track/route is to be calculated to a waypoint specified and has to be completed in some cases then (BRouter)

>the tracks calculated by BRouter seem acceptable

I agree.

> the received directions are acceptable

I agree.

>Recalculation is taking very much time, it seems to me much more than 60 s, what >makes it unusable.

Yes, I agree and don`t understand why - it takes rather long time even if I am 1 km from the desired destination !!! What on earth can take BRouter so long ? There is no Internet connection, all is done locally on a single mobile ! But if Locus calls BRouter properly, this question should be better asked in a BRouter forum.

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tommi ●

The BRouter forum is here:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!for...

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Bert Crommar ●

Being a Locus user since more than one year, I did make a test over innovations in Locus. If there is a problem with third part software it is a problem for Locus I gues, not for the user.

I am happy that other users seem to come to the same conclusions.

Bert Crommar.

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tommi ●

Bert, BRouter is developed by a guy who is doing it in his spare time (at least this is my guess) and he offers it for free.

If you say now it is a problem of Locus if this 3rd party software doesn`t match 100% in Locus, then if Menion follows your argumentation, he needs to remove the BRouter integration from Locus.

I think this is not what people would like to see. The usage of BRouter in Locus is already really helpful for bikers and hikers.

I can only recommend to Menion to declare the integration of BRouter as navigation source into Locus as Beta. However the problem of the missing calculation of directions after recalculation should be possible to fix in Locus.

Btw., Arndt the developer of BRouter still says that routing for cars is only test due to certain restrictions - one of them might be this long time for calculation.

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Marc Vanhoof ●

Is this item still hot these days ? I guess so ... As more as I read and test on it, as more I dont understand the difference between navigation and guidance. Both is TTS supported. What I know is that if I am on trip on the mountainbike, at least twenty times in an afternoon, I have to break off the navigation and start it up again, since it stops sending instructions to the TTS. Maybe I go a little bit off the track and it switches to another modus, it does not return to navigation along the track again once I am back on track. The customer doesnt has to be confronted with those differences of these modi. For me it's an internal affair of Locus and should act as it should act: smoothly and simple. I you are walking it's not that much of a problem, but on the bike ... pfff

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Libor Poutnik Striz ●

I use Brouter with OSMAnd for bike/foot routing for about 18 month, using Locus just occasionally until recently.

Brouter CAN do full navigation in both OSMAnd and Locus as well.

Navigation navigates betwen start - waypoints-target.

guidance joints the above points by the straight lines, useful for off the road/trail hiking, sailing or soaring.

All depends on ( in both OSMAnd and Locus ), if one uses Broute for true naviagtion, or uses Brouter to generate GPX track file to follow. And all depends on how locus is confugured for the case if one goes off the route/GPX track. E.g. Locus has a parameters determining if the navigation route to be recalculated, and if/when it should fall back to guidance.

these links may find some use a/o interest :

https://github.com/poutnikl/Brouter-profiles

https://github.com/poutnikl/Brouter-profiles/wiki/Brouter-profiles-collection

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Marc Vanhoof ●

For normal navigation I use OSMAnd because its that simple and error free and I use the normal imbedded offline OSMAnd routing, which works very well to me and is very stable. Never change a winning team I learned. :-)

Those brouter profiles you are mentioning, I guess I have to introduce them in brouter ? Or in Locus ? Every new profile will come up automatically in Locus while setup a new nav ?

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Libor Poutnik Striz ●

There is no sense in changing anything that works for your well until you realize it could or should do better.

Concerning errors, there is need to distinguish errors of the routing engine, errors of the map application and errors of the user.

OSMand bicycle routing ( Brouter is primarily for bicycle ) fails if elevation is to be considered, or if good distinguishing of way qualities is to be done.

They are Brouter profiles, not Locus profile. They belong to folder <your path to brouter data>/Brouter/profiles2/ . They are custom profiles, not standard Brouter profiles. standard profiles come with Brouter and are there placed automatically during Brouter instalation. Custom profiles have to be placed there manually.

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Michal Stupka ●

Hi Marc,

as Libor has said, it's a matter of settings. In your case I would recommend to have auto recalculation with route priority ON and switch OFF "strict route navigation" in Navigation > advanced settings. Then you can set "Maximum allowed deviation" to a higher value - this sets distance parameter to switch between navigation to guidance. Finally, in advanced settings, switch "snap to track" ON - then Locus won't switch navigation into guiding so easily.

As for the difference between navigation and guidance, you're right, in case of going along a track the difference is almost none and we sometimes consider the route guidance to be abolished. Technically navigation strictly goes along the line whereas guiding just directly guides you at the direction-changing points on the line.

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Marc Vanhoof ●

Thanks for your answer. My own setup was 'strictly to the road', 'recalculation off','snap on', 'illegal distance 50m'

Changed it now to 'navigation not strictly to the road','recalculation with route priority','illegal distance 250m','snap on'. And 'recalculation distance 50m'

I will try it for a while like this now. But one more question. If I make a route, I do it mostly in Basecamp and bring it on to Locus, why shoudnt I use my own and initial setup ? But anyhow I guess I made a made a mistake with the 'illegal distance distance' which was leading me to soon to guidance .

ps Since a few weeks I also use graphhopper. I must say that I am rather satisfied with that at first glimp. Off road (not really off road but little single tracks in the wood) is very well handled.

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Libor Poutnik Striz ●

If you are satisfied with GH, stick to it.

GH and BR have different target users. GH is about easy use and one size fits all solution. BR is for advanced users with the power of customization.

I have not GH nad BR hiking routes yet, but I have found GH bicycle routes not satisfying, testing it in area I know well.

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Michal Stupka ●

Hi Marc,

if you plan your route in some external app or SW and import it into Locus, of course you won't use any routing service. Just tell Locus to navigate you along your planned/imported route - select the route in folder (or display it on map), tap on it, select Navigation in the popup menu. Locus will generate voice commands along the route based on its direction changes

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Marc Vanhoof ●

We use to go every year once or twice cycling to Mallorca. So I developped a complete gpx network on the isle, since I know the isle very well. Half the isle is better at the moment (the west side with the mountains and Palma) After making fivehundred knots or so. I made the routing tracks (always two tracks between two points, two directions) The way I handle it, is tapping on the track, select the convenient direction and start with 'navigation'. First it navigates you to the point of the track you selected, if you are not on the track. Once on the track the routing has to stick on the select track, without recalculation of course. If you are intrested I could send you some knots and tracks as gpx I made. If you have an idea how I could improve this project, setups or whatever, I would be glad to hear it from you. Last summer, it was working perfect for three days or so. A new locus version or so was pushed, leading to a complete mess. No navigation anymore, no tts, always going to guidance. Just like that from one moment to another. :-(

Months (!) later on I got it working again with my familiar setting (nav strictly to the road, snap on, no recalculation) So let me know, if you want some extra stuff to kill time. :-p

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Libor Poutnik Striz ●

What is the sense in creation of GPX network - supposing the OSM ways are there ? ( Off the way guidance is another story, not for the routing engines. )

I can select target point and OSMAnd or Locus with Brouter nav engine will lead me there with logic of the used profile.

Or, in case of need I also can define start point and viapoints and Brouter will generate the route for me according to the current OSM map. I just import the route to Locus and follow it.

Using Locus Quick points with predefined names from / to / via1 / via9 is very easy.

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Marc Vanhoof ●

Look at this example. http://www.fietsnet.be

Its a very simple way to navigate yourself through belgium and holland along very well selected bikeroads. You can navigate yourself through a complete network, without cars or at least a minimum of cars. This network is in Belgium and Holland a huge success. Government spents millions into it every year.

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Libor Poutnik Striz ●

Sure, nice, but I do not see the point in pre-prepared sets of GPX routes.

It makes sense occasionally if the exact route you want is more important than reaching the target and passing viapoints alone, and if brouter cannot easily fit the route you want without many corrections.

Custom Brouter profiles are very powerful in skilled hands, able to emulate your own decisions.

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Libor Poutnik Striz ●

Brouter on-road GPX files are dense, typically 1 waypoint every 50-100 m in everage. It really does not matter much if Navigation or Guidance is used for them. Guidance *may* use less resources. Note that if we do not insist on a particular route, if we need just to get to the target by optimal way, it is preferred to use native Brouter navigation without GPX generation.

The magic of Brouter navigation is usage a good profile - the best if his own to fit his preferences. Brouter will calculate the route similar to what YOU would probably choose manually on web interactive planner.

If a sparse route/GPX file from other origin, situation differs dramatically.

If it is on-road route, with crossroads or curves between points, Guidance fails, leading you off-road.

If it is off-road route, Navigations fails, not able to navigate.

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Marc Vanhoof ●

For normal navigation I use OSMAnd because its that simple and error free and I use the normal imbedded offline OSMAnd routing, which works very well to me and is very stable. Never change a winning team I learned. :-)

Those brouter profiles you are mentioning, I guess I have to introduce them in brouter ? Or in Locus ? Every new profile will come up automatically in Locus while setup a new nav ?

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Marc Vanhoof ●

It depends on the region where you live. You cycle in the mountains ? No problem, most of the time there is only one road. If you cycle near villages and for sure a town, then it's way more difficult to find a convinient cycle road. Is a big road with a cycle path an option ? ... Hmm... maybe, if there is nothing else ... Cyclists prefer even more a little road without a cyling path, than a large road with a cycling path along. The cycling network in Belgium and Holland did exist already before there were gps tools ... So, most of the cycling maps online, are even based on that network. And dont forget, there are still a lot of people who love cycling without a smartphone or a gps. A lot of tavernes also positioned themselves along the network, so you can go for a drink or something to eat at twenty different places if you make a trip of let's one hundred km.

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Libor Poutnik Striz ●

A good Brouter profile will find you a good route even in the city. Sure, GPS and smartphones are not necessery. But, that is rather out of the Brouter / Locus topic.

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Navigation using BRouter?

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