Bearing on map ok, wrong on compass

Andreas Woithon shared this question 3 weeks ago
Answered

Hello,


do I make an error?


My setting is only GPS compass, as the device doesn't have on. My map is set not to rotate, so my position arrow shows in the direction I'm driving (Map top is north).


On the map my direction is displayed correct. When I'm driving west, the arrow shows to the left side. That has always worded correct.


Now I checked the compass while approaching a waypoint. The compass almost always showed that I'm driving more or less East (around 90 degrees) while I was driving West. The arrow in the compass pointing to my destination (waypoint) was set to the correct degree, but pointed in the wrong direction (as the compass was wrong, as well).


Then I drove a 270 degree turn, the compass turned slowly almost to N (0 degree) but fall back to East again, after my turn changed into an straight street, again( heading north).


Am I'm doing something wrong?


That happens with the internal GPS sensor and an external Bluetooth one (Navilock BT 821G).


Cheers

AWo

Comments (24)

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Hi. This sounds like the same issue I brought up a few months ago:

http://help.locusmap.eu/topic/orientation-by-gps-simply-does-not-work

Menion decided it's supposed to work that way, but I absolutely cannot understand why. I've learned to squint and follow the much smaller arrow on the map screen, since the compass is of little use to me now. (If I need to check sun position, that's still useful.)

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Good day Andreas,

I'm not sure it is exactly same "problem" as mentioned Viajero.

In case, device does not have hardware compass, rose in compass screen rotates based on GPS movement. Only exception is during active navigation along track with enabled "Snap to track" in settings, where final orientation will be aligned to current track direction.

May you try your compass orientation without active navigation? Compass then should really point in direction of your movement.

Menion

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I'm not sure if that is the same. You wrote that it works now like the good old compass. But then the rose should turn and not always keep East roughly at the top, regardless how I turn, shouldn't it? In other words, regardless if I move north or west, the top of the rose is roughly always East.


My map is configured to have North always at the top.

I turned "Snap to track" on and off, no difference.


I attached some screenshots. I captured two situations. Once where I move South-West but the rose shows South-East. Once I move nearly North, but the rose still shows South East. My destination is in The North, so the direction arrow shows into the right direction related to the rose, not to reality. But that should be the case if it works like the good ole compass...


Cheers

AWo

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Good day Andreas,

really interesting. It looks like a problem in "heading" value, because sun and also arrow that points to guided point (on first two screenshots) seems to be correct, but whole rose is incorrectly rotated.

I've prepared for you special Locus Free version. If possible, download it, install it, check settings and try to use it. After same issue happen again, just close it. In Locus/logs directory will be special log file, that will contains values that I hope, will help with this issue.

Thank you.

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"It looks like a problem in "heading" value, because sun and also arrow that points to guided point (on first two screenshots) seems to be correct, but whole rose is incorrectly rotated."

It looks exactly like that.


Can I install the free Version beside the Pro version?


Cheers

AWo

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Free works accurate.


Cheers

AWo

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The beta/free version linked above doesn't fix my issue (compass demented, tiny arrow on map as expected), so clearly they're different issues. I'll leave this conversation to let it stay on-topic.

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No problem in Free version? Funny ... there are no changes in system of compass.

Hmm ... may you please do in your Pro version backup of settings ( menu > more > Backup manager ) and send me it on jiri.mlavec@asamm.com ? I'll try to restore your settings in own device with hope, same problem appear. Also what device and Android version are you using?

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No changes? Why did I got that version?


Ok, you've got mail.


Cheers

AWo

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Hello,

I wanted to say that in Free version are absolutely no changes in using compass compare to Pro version. They both use exactly same system.

Thanks for an email, got it.

Menion

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Good day Andreas,

I'm testing it with your backup file and for me it all looks correctly.

I have two more questions/tasks:

  1. are you really sure, that your device does not have hardware compass? What device are you using? In Locus Map settings is a small bug in description. Compass settings is applied only on the map, not on the "rose". Compass screen always use hardware compass if device has any.
  2. please try to calibrate your compass before use. Just wave with your device along all three axis for a while

Thanks.

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I run a tool showing me that it got a hardware compass. But the setting is "GPS only". Does that make a difference then?

I'll calibrate it, but as I use it in a car it should not have a big effect.


It is a Samsung S5 neo.


Cheers

AWo

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Hello Andreas,

ok, whole discussion started by your sentence "My setting is only GPS compass, as the device doesn't have on.". Seems, next time I'll have to check if users device really has a compass.


So, seems that Locus then works as expected. Screen with compass rose always use hardware compass if available, no matter what is setup in settings. As I mentioned, in settings is older incorrect description. GPS compass is applied only on map screen rotation, not on compass rose itself.


Using compass in a car may cause a troubles, agree. Because Locus Map is made mainly for hike & bike & geocaching activities and because using compass screen in a car seems to be quite unique use case, I do not consider this as a problem. Thank you for understanding.

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Got it.


The compass always uses the integrated one, if there's one. So the problems seems to com from the in-car-use. I'll check it outside. That makes sense, so far.


I have another device without one (checked that with the tool as well). I'll check the behaviour there, too.


But why is that this way? If you use GPS for teh map view, why not for the compass, as well?


Cheers

AWo

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Perfect.

Why is that way: for me question is, why it should be opposite. Compass was always device that point to magnetic north, and same it should be in mobile device when device has support for this, right?

You have same issue as Viajero (we discussed this in separate topic), but you two is still a lot less support for me, then users that wrote us before with question "Why compass rose does not rotate when I stand still".

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Compass (critical instrument) use (if hardware available) have simple test before use.

After calibrating ! Compass 100% reliable points to North when phone is turned around 360° ?

Wilst driving how and where the phone is mounted ? Bikemount ? Away from any Iron steel ?

In daily phone use do NOT (never) mount in a flip cases with magnetic closure system.

When out of such used flip case needs multiple (8 figure) recalibratings to recover !


On my bike I had a problem with the central highly magnetic steel bolt fixing the steer.

I demagnetised that bolt. But after a while it was highly magnetic again.

I double checked multiple times with standard free compass ! The needle nearly went out of the case.

Fixed by changing the used bikemount. A non magnetic Alu material and inox bolts mount !

Phone now is at a higher position and further away from that problematic steel bolt.


I confirm a reliable compass using old Ace Phone. Turning the steer and indication follows.

Altough a little bit wobbly sometimes, +/- similar to some free gadget given away compasses.

Some filtering could stabilise ? Make it more similar to the "in oil" compasses ?

A continue in that other tread ;-)

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Something to add. I do read "in car" use. So phone probably mounts in a near vertical position ?

Magnetic Compass (at my ace phone) does not like to be operated at this position.

By the 2 level sensors (calibrate) I can't reinstruct the compass. (Backside of phone points to the North.)

Can more recent phones ?

So when moving: Best by "Direction (rose) indication by gps"

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Good day guys, Willy,

we had a small team discussion and result is:

- compass rose is made for using with hardware sensor of device and is made mainly for obtain of current device orientation or some fine tunning of exact location of geocache for example. There should be no common use-case for using compass screen rotated by GPS

- in case of map, situation is different. Mainly during bike/car navigation, is is common to use GPS to rotate screen based on real movement, no matter, how device is oriented in the world.

So settings will remain as is. Compass by sensor only, map based on selected settings. Thanks for understanding.

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That makes absolutely......


....sense to me.


Fine. Answered. Thanks a lot for your efforts, again. Thumbsup!


Cheers

AWo

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(Friendly) disagree...but ooh well that's this discussion for I suppose. Does not really hurt me as my most used phone has no inbuilt compass. Damm...in a next phone I should heat up the soldering iron to remove ? LOL.

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I still disagree, but it's "not a hill I'm willing to die on", and I do appreciate you taking the time to consider this, thank you. Perhaps if more people vote, it can be reconsidered in the future.


In the meantime, hopefully you'll clarify the wording on the Sensors dialog.

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@Viajero.

Sure I do understand the view point of the Locus_team. But I also do notice magnetic compass reliability is so so (delicate). Very large unreliable deviations mostly by bad operation usage practice by a magnetic flip case for example. Anyway my Samsungs are +/-reliable after a calibrate. Ace +/-wobbly and Ace2 stable and sure are usefull but very precise ?

Rotating the phones horizontally in plus and minus 90° steps not always result in exactly same direction indication. Not as a precise "robust" indication by my "no hardware magnetic compass" used chinese phone, only at movement of course.

Have a phone with magnetic compass ? Want compass rose view and Sun indicator to compare. Only option = USE. Q: How your BV6000 is performing ? I always "wave calibrate" by the well known 8 movement before operation. When In the field best out of public sight, otherwise people do think the guy is going "nuts".

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I'll get in the habit of doing the "compass wave". Maybe that'll make it work better when I'm driving to some parking coords. The phone works great BTW, other than the magnetic compass sometimes going nuts, probably because I never do the compass wave.


Thanks again.

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Hello, thanks for the interesting discussion.

I have used Garmin devices for a long time too, both for hiking and for sailing, then I tried apps on Android but I was not satisfied, until I finally found Locus and started using it regularly.

My experience both on Garmin devices and on smartphones is that the electronic compasses - even the best ones - are not as good as GPS signal to get the direction I am moving along, even at very low speeds: they always introduce some mistake, even just after multiple recalibrations.

So, the only situation they are really useful if when I am absolutely motionless and cannot use GPS signal to deduce my orientation.

Therefore I always configure apps and devices to only use GPS for orientation: in Locus I found this configuration in Sensors > Orientation > Orientation via GPS, but it does not look to work as expected when the compass panel is shown.

I use a lot the compass rose: in my opinion that is the best panel when sailing, but I often use it even when hiking (I have also asked for more information to be included in it if possible, see: http://help.locusmap.eu/topic/azimuth-and-direction-to-destination-point-in-compass-panel ) especially when I have a target point to reach.

So I agree with what Viajero expressed both here and at http://help.locusmap.eu/topic/orientation-by-gps-simply-does-not-work

For how I use Locus, it would be best if also the compass panel could be set to actually use GPS signal only, not the electronic compass, to determine the moving direction when the App is configured to do so.


Thanks

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