Problem with start of navigation (version 3.17)

Andrew Heard ●

Thomas - thanks for report - at least I am not the only one. See my forum topic. My current suggestion is to tap on large top/left question mark icon > tap "nearest point".

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Michal Stupka ●

As Andrew said in the forum he mentioned, the bug was probably in the imported route. Anyway, could you please describe your issue step by step? When does it occur? What are your navigation/guidance settings?

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Andrew Heard ●

@Michal - I didn't quite say that. I said in my testing so far that Locus navigation starts more reliably with some imported tracks than others (TCX & short GPX - reliable, longer GPX - not reliable). I can't tell whether it is related to the version of Locus because I haven't needed to use navigation for many months. In particular I've never used the new auto-recalc (Never/ Point/ Route) setting before now, and certainly changing from Never to Route means navigation starts 100% of time.

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Thomas Forster ●

No, the bug is not at the imported routes. The imported routes worked well.

I use locus pro since one year succesfully on my trip around the world. Now with the new version 3.17 I have the problem, that locus starts the guidance instead of navigation. Normaly I use points on the map and than start navigation from my current GPS position with brouter. The same problem is at new calculation the route.

Do you understand my problem? Otherwise I could explain in german ;-)

Sorry for my english.

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Menion ●

Good day Thomas, guys, ...

unfortunately I'm unable to simulate this problem, no matter what I do.

Situation: latest Locus Map 3.17. Brouter 1.4.2 ( new pack of profiles received by deleting BRouter directory with profiles and starting BRouter so it creates a new ), new routing data.

Give me please a start and end coordinates of route that cause you troubles with same configuration as mine, thank you.

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Libor Poutnik Striz ●

For me, the difference for otherwise the same scenario is

the navigation along the imported BRouter GPX track works (navigation kicks in)

API routing does not work (guidance kicks in instead of navigation - that small guidance icon is present, not the question mark when navigation is off route).

The used Brouter hint mode ( 1-autochoose versus 2-Locus) seems not to matter.

Also, API routing does not display blue dots of hint points for me ( if I have properly understood you previous comment on the Forum that API hint passing already works....)

Unfortunately, I cannot elaborate my testing in more details now..

Edit: - I have suspicion Locus API may got choken by new format of agreed API Brouter data and forced Locus to act unexpectedly, perhaps some overlooked bugs on Locus or Brouter side ?

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Menion ●

Hello Libor,

I'm able to simulate this problem only in one case: start and end points lay on a road, where should not be a single navigation command. Once I add a single corner, it works fine. Check my screenshots.

79a0efd5f7d8b10c26186ec4a8dae49f a8b8dd5f8911c56cf9a18e7459c4c29a

Is this the problem we all talk about?

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Libor Poutnik Striz ●

Screens are like that, but not the cases. AlL my API and Gpx tests are for long established points spreaded across of city of Brno, with lots of hints.

Gpx success and API failure is for me 100% reproducible for multiple routes.And possible also API route navigation recovery where save route is reloaded.

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Libor Poutnik Striz ●

...

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Menion ●

Completely unsolvable problem for me, without ability to simulate it.

- latest Locus Map Pro 3.17.0. from Google Play

- latest BRouter 1.4.2, removed whole directory so BRouter generated new profiles and also downloaded fresh routing data right now

- started Locus, started menu > more > navigation

- defined start point: N 50, E14

- defined end point: N 51, E15

- tapped car-fast

Voala ... navigation started. What am I doing different compare to you?

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Libor Poutnik Striz ●

No idea. Very mysterious. I have also tried the trekking profile with hints disabled, but no positive effect.

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Thomas Forster ●

Hallo Menion, ich versuche es nun auf deutsch, vielleicht bringt Dir google translator eine passende Übersetzung:

Ich verwende Locus Pro 3.17 und Brouter 1.4.2.

Importierte Tracks funktionieren problemlos.

Bisher konnte ich auf der Karte einen Punkt setzen, die Navigation starten, Auto schnell auswählen und die Navigation wurde gestartet. Wenn ich mit der neuen Version dasselbe mache, startet die Zielführung anstatt der Navigation. Das passiert unabhängig von gewählten Punkten. Gestern in Kyrgyzstan genauso wie heute in Uzbekistan.

Bisher konnte ich unterwegs die Route neu berechnen, die Navigation arbeitete problemlos. Wenn ich das nun mache, startet die Zielführung.

Mein Workaround - Ich setze einen Punkt, starte die Navigation und speichere die berechnete Route. Dann beende ich die automatisch gestartete Zielführung und rufe die gespeicherte Route auf. Dort starte ich die Navigation, dann funktioniert es. Allerdings nur so lange bis ich eine Neuberechnung der Route benötige. Das passiert vor allem in großen Städten häufig.

Ich hoffe, ich konnte das Problem einigermaßen anschaulich beschreiben und hoffe sehr auf eine schnelle Lösung!

Bisher war ich von dem Produkt begeistert. Wenn ich könnte würde ich gerne auf die alte Version zurück gehen.

Schöne Grüße aus Taschkent

Thomas

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gynta ●

Koordinaten zB?

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Thomas Forster ●

Gynta, ich verstehe Dich nicht.

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gynta ●

Menion schrieb:

Give me please a start and end coordinates of route that cause you troubles with same configuration as mine, thank you.

(Lat und Lon)

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Thomas Forster ●

Gynta, that´s not a problem of the coordinates, thats a bug in locus or brouter or a combination. With the last version it works perfect. See also the topic in forum from Andrew

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Libor Poutnik Striz ●

Coordinates do not matter, it happens for any.

Imported Gpx routes navigates, but identical scenarios with API routes just guides.

I confirm if API route is set to be stored permanently, guidance is stopped, then if the saved route is set to be navigated, navigation works.

Edit: and the hints are displayed ( before we're not)

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Andrew Heard ●

@Menion - my test BRouter GPX file is attached. As Libor has said this file is nothing special except it is longer than just few 100m. The GPX file was created with BRouter 1.4.2 using default fastbike.brf profile. When I test with a short track or Willys complex/ looping TCX file I have no trouble.

Here is my test sequence:

settings: navigation auto-recalc=never
settings: navigation> advanced > max allowed deviation=200m
GPS=disabled
place GPX into mapItems folder, then import the file.
ensure track is visible on map
zoom in so can say for sure that simulated position is very close to track
center cross=directly over start of track
tap track > navigation icon > Navigation (not Guidance)
observe Guidance mode with big question mark icon, and double beep
drag the GPS position along track, but Locus stays in guidance mode
tap big question mark icon > tap "nearest point" > now Locus goes to Navigation mode, with 1.2km to left hand turn

Screen capture below shows GPS position directly over start of track (see ruler) when navigation is commenced, but guiding mode instead of navigation mode, no thick blue line, and first turn/ waypoint not displayed.

a8f83590e3c96321f355015cf52b39f5

Files:

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Menion ●

Aaaaaa that's the key ...

tap track > navigation icon > Navigation (not Guidance)

I was always tapping only on a small arrow on popup window > navigation, and here it works fine!

Uff, almost one at night, excuse me, I'll fix it tomorrow :).

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gynta ●

Guiding instead of Navigation. (Navigation expected)

See short clip..

Files:

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Menion ●

Well, thanks, but in your case, you have disabled "Compute instructions", so result is expected ;). I think problem is as I wrote above, thanks to Andrews description ...

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gynta ●

Ah, yes (sorry forgotten to explain exactly).

Maybe that's a confusing mystery (user)problem for other guys because they choose "Navigate!"

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Libor Poutnik Striz ●

But, is not expected to have Compute instructions disabled - what I understand as Locus hints , if instructions are already computed as Brouter hints ?

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Libor Poutnik Striz ●

Or by other words, If Compute instructions is enabled.....

Does Locus realize BRouter hint presence and avoids generating its own hints via the route shape ?

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Menion ●

Compute instructions

- enabled: routing engine create commands by itself, or Locus generates them if they are missing

- disabled: routing engine may create commands by itself, anyway they are removed. "No computed instructions" really means no instructions.

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Libor Poutnik Striz ●

HMM, it looks like voila / heureka / bingo. The key may be really to have Compute instructions enabled - what I have previously misinterpreted as to force Locus to compute its own hints.

I computed a bike route from Brno-Zabovresky to Velka Bites with API / navigation dialog, using my latest bike BRouter profile Trekking-Poutnik. I had Compute instructions Enabled and Navigation WAS correctly activated. Hints points were visually placed as expected blue dots, intelligently on crossroads/junctions as by BRouter intention. Not on turning-curve places of the route, regardless the crossroads, if they had been generated by a route shape like in past.

Edit: I guess the intention of "Compute instructions" is intelligent, but may sound ambigiously. Even if in the manual is mentioned as generation of voice instructions, it can be easily misunderstood as generate all instructions from the scratch, according to the route shape.

BTW, There is an analogy in doubts at Fill elevations ON/OFF in case elevations present in the route. One may be unsure if ON meant to use them or to rewrite them. But this is easy to check.

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Libor Poutnik Striz ●

Compute instructions disabled seems to mean "Guidance with the track generated by routing engine.".

It could make sense to move this option from Navigation to Guidance renamed as

"Generate track by a routing engine."

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Hm, my second thought is - probably not. While it makes sense semantically, it would probably make a mess for the dialog screens.

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Thomas Forster ●

For better understanding, I also made a short clip, showing my problem

- select a point

- select navigation

- stop guidance

- select the saved Route

- start navigation

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gynta ●

Thomas Forster wrote:

- select navigation

- stop guidance

...sounds strange, because in past we have learned to distinguish

btw.

about your clip: create a zip file to attach

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gynta ●

Next confusion

see clip:

question: stop guiding - or stop navigation?

Files:

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Libor Poutnik Striz ●

Stopping the guiding part as the poiting

or stopping the navigation part of eventual route recalculation ? :-) :-P

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Libor Poutnik Striz ●

Welcome to the terminology hell.

Navigation(broader sense) = Navigation(narrower sense)-Routing(track computation) + Navigation(narrower sense)-Instructions(Instruction computation+providing).

Guidance(broader sense) = Guidance(narrower sense)-ManualTrackpointPlanning + Guidance(narrower sense)-TrackpointPointing

All can be combined as

Navigation(track generation by routing) + Navigation(instruction providing) [Navigation with Compute instructions]

Navigation(track generation by routing) + Guidance(pointing) [Navigation without Compute instructions]

Guidance(Manual trackpoint set) + Navigation(instruction providing) [Navigation along stored manual track]

Guidance(Manual trackpoint set) + Guidance(pointing) [Guidance along stored manual track]

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0709 ●

Libor, I share your my own used hints method to try to remember, because indeed is becoming very complex !

As there is already that specific Locus track guide system, I'll try not to use "guide" in Locus Navigation text.

Locus Navigation.

Ranges from "Strict" Track Navigator system towards "Free" Street Navigator system.

Track Navigation: Any trackdesign possible, over mapped roads or not. To add nice or minimal turninstructions sometimes manual (re)edit work to do !

Used for ? Example: Race or complex temporary cyclo cross or MTB training circuits, some even not mapped or never will.

Street Navigation: Street Navigator needs routable streetinfo, of coarse, and minimal a start and finish point set.

From Very Strict Track(point) navigation ->-> (all medium steps between) ->-> to Street Navigation.

AUTORECALCULATE OFF = Track Navigator AUTORECALCULATE ON = Street Navigator.

- Track Navigation Strict Set. User receives message to return to trackpoint where he left ! Only escape = push nearest trackpoint.

- Track Navigation Strict Unset. User receives message to return to trackpoint where he left, if refusing, Locus after a while (depends on settings) auto selects nearest trackpoint.

-

- All medium steps in between...(fill in yourself).

-

- Street Navigation: Set Start. Set MUST PASS VIA points. Set Finish. Between via points free to go anywhere as autorerouter suggest new streettraject.

- Street Navigation: Set Start. Set Finish. Between start and finish free to go anywhere as autorerouter suggest new streettraject.

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Libor Poutnik Striz ●

Street Navigator may, but may not use AUTORECALCULATE ON. ( Also - autorecalculate is not present in free Locus )

--

Track Navigator Strict Set - why not next trackpoint ? Is it disabled if Strict track navigation is ON ?

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0709 ●

he he , is only my own raw note. Why not next track point ? if you tap Navigation field (with the arrow) there is the available option to tap: Nearest point.

btw all user are free to use their own version hint ;;;;---)))

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Menion ●

Hi guys,

don't you think that this discussion is too long? :)

These of you, who have any troubles, please try this test version . I did some modifications that should help on a problem we talk here.

If you use new BRouter 1.4.2 , be 100% sure, you use fresh data. Best is to completely delete whole BRouter directory in your internal memory and download fresh routing data again. This also recreate new routing profiles that supports also navigation instructions.

Hope it will work fine!

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Libor Poutnik Striz ●

It is your fault. :-) If Locus had been bad application, nobody would have spoken about it.

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Andrew Heard ●

The Locus 3.17.0.2 beta fixes the issue we are discussing here. Well done Menion.

What exactly was the issue? BRouter GPX file format/ internal issue? As you can see we collectively spent large amount of time trying to sort the wheat from the chaff. Me, about 1/2 day testing. I see this special "beta" expires 1st June, the day I leave cycle touring ;-(

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Menion ●

My fault? Well ... :)

Anyway problem: few months ago, I've added system that when you tap in any point on a map and start navigation from popup menu of this point, Locus started navigate to this selected point, not to nearest point on track to your current location.

But here, when you start navigation from big detail screen of track, there is a track at top. Locus used this map, selected point in the middle of track thanks to invisible center cursor and start navigation on this middle point. Because of this, navigation was enabled, but Locus guided somewhere to middle of track. Because of this, issue happen only to longer tracks and not the short.

And no worry, I plan release today evening or tomorrow morning new version.

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Andrew Heard ●

I may have spoken too soon. I've done some more testing. Yes, 3.17.2 starts navigation OK now, as you explain (thanks), but then for two tests I made deviation from the suggested route, and later tapped "recalculate" but two results A) the chosen route using fast-bike was different (worse) to BRouter fast-bike (should be identical profile) and B) another time recalculate forced guiding mode, with no opportunity to resume navigation mode. I will investigate both observations further, with screen caps & steps to reproduce (if possible) as soon as possible.

Can I suggest we keep all further comments in this help topic, and not split into the parallel forum topic.

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Andrew Heard ●

I can't reproduce result A at desk as simulation, and result B may be worth a new topic, but I will keep here as may all be related. Import the 2 attached waypoints, disable GPS, move simulated position to either of 2 imported points, use internal function Navigation to, select start=From, end=To, compute=yes, store=yes, select fast bike (BRouter), then Locus goes to guiding mode instead of navigation mode. Why?

Files:

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Menion ●

Hello Andrew,

in this case, problem is that both points lay on same road and BRouter do not generate a single navigation command. Read here about it: http://help.locusmap.eu/topic/problem-with-version-3-17#comment-28369

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0709 ●

What if always adding a "Depart" and "Arrive" point ? The precise RtePointaction probably excist ?

I added in the Depart and at Arrive 2x RtePointaction>1. Or even in such a special case always Navigation;. Ask Arndt ? No ?

Files:

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Andrew Heard ●

Thanks @menion - yes, this "feature" has confused me a number of times. I keep forgetting. Users asks for navigation but is only provided with guidance. Confusing.

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Andrew Heard ●

I've added a topic with suggestion to improve this "feature".

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Menion ●

Thanks Andrew, I'll look at it once I get a home. Generally it's more a problem that should be solved ( unexpected behavior )

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Andrew Heard ●

There was another suggestion it could be "fixed" on the BRouter side, however BRouter doesn't know whether the user wants guiding or navigation, so to me, it seems that only Locus can make the operation easier.

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Thomas Forster ●

Hello Menion

Thank you for helping. I can´t believe it, but it´s OK now.

Only to be sure, I delete my brouter-installation. I also delete the complete directory brouter. Then I made the new installation and the download of the necassary dates. Before I try the beta-version, I try it again with the regular version 3.17 ... and it works correct! I do this on 2 different devices, one smartphone and a tablet.

Now I can start tomorrow to Bukhara with navigation!

Kind regards

Thomas

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Menion ●

Perfect, glad to hear it. My colleague Michal discovered same observation - full re-install on side of BRouter is needed to make it work.

Have a nice day.

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Problem with start of navigation (version 3.17)

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