Cycling Watt Power in Locus ( Ant+ BLE or computed)

paweljaracz shared this idea 6 years ago
In Progress

Some of Android apps ( strava,ipbike) have possibility to show Power in Watt in Dashboard just like speed , heartrate, cadence etc..


I think many people will be interested to have this possibility in Locus.


Most popular is Power through ANT+ but possible also via BLE (Bluetooth 4.0) or just by mathematical algorythme .


About Algorythme I dont know which alghorytme is the best .

Some of them taking into account speed, cadence, road gradient,weight of cyclist or bike but they are also formulas according to heart rate and calories .

The simplest one Power=1,25*Weight of Rider*9,81 (Speed*road gradient)/ 360


Some interesting sites regarding calculation without sensor https://strava.zendesk.com/entries/20959332-power-calculations

https://strava.zendesk.com/entries/20959272-how-to-get-calculated-power-for-your-rides

http://www.2peak.com/tools/powercalculator.php

http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm

http://sportech.online.fr/sptc_idx.php?pge=spen_esy.html

http://www.braydenwm.com/calburn.htm


It is not so useful on flat becouse for ex. of wind factor but quite good when we climb hills. Last summer my heartrate belt callapse and i have made few ride looking instead at ,,power'' on my Rox 10. And it really help.

I dont think difference with ''real power'' is very big.

Replies (33)

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Hi there,

excellent proposal!

However I believe this needs more structure:

1) is about getting Powersensors/powermeters connected tot he device via ANT+ or BT4.0. Then while tracking is on the power values should be recorded as well and of course there should be an option to sho the current power value in the dashboard as well as avg and max. This all should be straight forward and it were a real enhancement of Locus Pro!

2) is trying to calculate current power values based on various factors. This seems quite complicated and anything else then reliable. It could also be done after excercising by applications like Spoprtstracks, so i would consider this as nice to have


My positive vote is most of all for option 1).

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It should be simple enough to add support for power logging, at least for simple version of it.


Also it would be nice if this could be implemented in the live tracking API. Currently I only know of Ipbike which supports power reading with android!

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According to this blog post that product doesn't exist yet - http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/11/limits-meter-really.html although looks nice.

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My proposal is not specific to any powermeter! This propopsal is a generic proposal to complete the recording featureset of locus. Recording GPS together with heartrate and cadence is already implemented. The only missing piece is recording of power data provided over ANT+ or BT.


That's the key of my suggestion!

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Indeed.. There is a pretty comprehensive list about ANT+/BLE power meters here:


https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/09/power-meters-buyers-guide2016-edition.html


First ANT+ power meters came on the market in 2009 with SRM Wireless and then others from 2010-2012 onwards. Others have only been able to create their own power meters when SRM's and others patents began expiring.

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Adding Power Meter Support (ANT+ or BLE - better of course both ) is first step but still not enough.


We need data from Power Meter to be saved( recorded) as Fit or Tcx (gpx format doesn't contain Power Meter data)


(from others app

-Orux map read Power Meter from Ant + but doesn't save trainings as Fit ,Tcx .Still only GPX -this format is not usefull in sense of Power Meters

-TwoNav -like Oruxmap (without saved as fit)

-IpBike read and Saved Power Meters correctly ( fit)

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Yes for sure for recording capability.. I'd only really need Locus and ANT+ power for the livetrack feature as there doesn't seem to exist a real live tracker (1s interval). See here: http://help.locusmap.eu/topic/more-data-for-live-tracking#comment-36616

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Hi Guys,

Did you vote in favor of the proposal? If not, pls do so instead of discussing nitty gritty detail about implementation. Locus can already export for instance TCX files so if it records power data it could be exported as well...

Let's focus on convincing Menion that recording power data will improve Locus significantly!

Best regards

Bernhard

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Of course I voted, and even shared this with fellow cyclists ;)

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Is there any chance to implement this feature at least at basic leve?

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Good day Kirill,

support for power meters is planned, unfortunately cannot promise time of realization. I'm little worried that it won't happen this year because of huge amount of partially started tasks. Thanks for understanding.

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If it could motivate your developers - I'd be happy to pay for an add on.

I am interested in display of instant/average over a short interval (say, 10s) and total power. Recording/exporting the data would be cool, but much less important

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Happy new year! :)


I am currently thinking about acquiring a power meter for my road bike. Since many years I am using Locus Maps Pro as a bike computer, at the moment together with a Samsung A3 (2017).


Now, if I get a power meter, of course I want a device that shows and records not only the gps data, but also the amount of power (in Watts) I put into the pedals, together with the cadence (aka pedal frequency) and maybe the heart frequency.


After a ride, I want to import the gps data together with the recorded power meter (and heart rate) data to Strava, as easily as possible.


I know that many fellow riders do this with special sports tracking devices or the Strava app. Some of them are mentioned on the following site. It also explains how to get activity data to Strava:


https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/articles/223297187-How-to-get-your-Activities-to-Strava


I'd like to get this done with only Locus Maps Pro, and not needing e.g. the Strava app or an additional device.


P.S.: Of course, when a recorded track e.g. has to be cut manually at the end (because I forgot to stop recording before entering the train home), both the gps data and the corresponding biometric data must be cut by the track editor simultaneously.


The following image shows additional track data (i.e. besides gps data) of a recorded activity, as it is presented by Strava.


caf54317ec2f32f8bd02845f828c1c32

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This is a support page of Stages, the manufacturer of the powermeter I just bought for my road bike, listing third party Android apps that are compatible with the powermeter:


Third party apps compatible with the Stages Powermeter


I'd like to see Locus Maps in this list in the not too far future. :)

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Things are developing nicely in the cycle power meter area. Have you seen IQSquare? I ordered a pair of these power meters at Indiegogo and expect delivery in Nov 2018 timeframe.


So, Menion, there is still some time until I will hopefully receive my power meters to develop a way to record power measurements in Locus Map together with the GPS track and with HR.

However if there is no such option when I receive the power meters I will be forced to use another app for recording which I would regrett!

Do you see any chance to get something going?

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Good day Bernhard,

nice tool, thanks for sharing. We have some serious plans on rework or our Bluetooth system in Locus and power meter should be part of this improvement. 29 votes in this idea is something, we definitely should not ignore. Some time frame? Hope that during Q1/2019, work should start.

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Hi Menion,

many thanks for your positive and fast response. That sounds good. Just for completeness I suggest not to limit transmission of power data to BT but also allow to record power meter data transmitted via ANT+.

And although your timeline is a bit later that I hoped for I think this is acceptable. If I receive the power meter devices earlier that Locus Map provides the ability to record power meter data, i hope I get not too much used to another app which I will have to use then in the meantime :)

Best regards

Bernhard

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Yeah! Don't forget ANT+ ! It is much more common in power meters, and also exclusive in older ones. (first ones appearing in 2009 with SRM)

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That sounds good. I hope it's not too late when power meter support comes, I really don't want to give up my phone as my cycling computer, but I also need a device that's allowing me to train with power.

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will powermeter with ANT+ be integrated in locus pro in 2019??, I would spend some money ;-)

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I'll also support with money if that speed up progress ;)

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+1 here

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I'm sorry to say it, but in the first half of 2019 (we have no much longer plans), our time is completely filled.

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Damn, so I'll need to buy a wahoo :(

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Just use the Strava app, it shows the current wattage (I would prefer a 30s average, but it’s better than nothing). I use both apps at the same time. No need to spend hundreds of dollars on a black and white screen

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Or IpBike, which implements full ant+ functionality (Really easy to do imho, just read the ant+ SDK docs). Also, it gives you workouts, which is nice. The problem is that no other app except locus map gets the elevation computation right.

I tried using both apps before, but it's impossible to get them working together properly (ipbike freezes if you scroll in locus map).

So the options are getting a dedicated bike computer, which is stupidly expensive, but it works.

Or, what I'm also considering, is writing my own app to record and display the ride data, which runs in split screen view with locus map. Shouldn't be too much work, I already made an app that can connect to any Ant+ device and display the device's data, and it only took me a couple hours (I really don't understand why it is so hard to implement this @Menion, so many people are asking for this for years. Did you perhaps use the ANT protocol and extract the sensor data manually? You can also use the ANT+ protocol, which does almost everything automatically for you, see https://github.com/ant-wireless/ANT-Android-SDKs/tree/master/ANT%2B_Android_SDK).

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Oh, regarding the strava app, it computes elevation from gps-points instead of using the phone's pressure sensor, so it's not really an option for me.

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@Marcel K: Do really think that there is a differene in elevation calculation? IMHO the differnece is maximum that the GPS-Point height information is maybe correlated of GPS Information and pressure sensor to get better actual height. May also have a look on https://support.outdooractive.com/hc/en-us/articles/217926063-Why-are-there-different-indications-of-altitude-in-the-same-tour-

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other option maybe is also ORUX than

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The article explains nicely why using GPS for elevation data is a bad idea. From my experience, the pressure sensor delivers way more accurate and realistic readings. This is especially evident when riding in a group where others have dedicated cycling computers with pressure sensors.

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But pressure sensors have other issues like weather changes (was riding with HAC4 for years before GPS was availble) - I do just afterwards hight correction within GarminConnect to adjust hight - quite sufficient for me

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Any update on this topic? I am waiting since years for an implemetation to use my powermeter.

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I use Locus Map Pro on my Android mobile phone and Galaxy Watch. Great apps ! I recommend it to all my bike friends. During hours of ride I'm starring on my Locus panel with actual heart rate, speed, cadence. Power sensor support is "must have" for a nowadays app for bike riders. Please !

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Any news on Powermeter implementation?

Locus is already the best app for cycling and the only thing that would make it the ultimate app is power data.

Maybe it's an idea to add powermeter support as an extra pay option. I think lots of users will pay for it. I certainly will!

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Hello Sjoerd,

we are well aware of this very missing feature (mainly in times, power meters finally starts to have usable prices) as well as an old problem with the inability to use multiple sensors of the same type. It is not about money, but about our very limited work-time & preferences. I wanted to invest time in BT & ANT system in 2019, but unfortunately, priorities were on Locus Map 4.

So hopefully, this year ... finally.

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This is just to add my vote in favour of powermeter support in Locus. Hope it will be implemented soon

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Have banned every cycling computer due to how great Locus maps is. Thanks for such a great tool. But I also would love to see the integration of parameters in the tracking. I don't want to switch to other apps as there is just no better one.

Thanks for thinking about this matter !

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This would be a great addition to Locus Maps. Any updates on this?

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Yes... Would be nice really, finally to have this feature in the payed app.

Repeating "Lack of time, problems, blabla. " over 3-5y, sorry to say, but these are just excuses.

No problem... if Locus Team doesn't want this feautre, no problem, be honest and close the thread. IMHO

Yes, would be nice to support dual-side powermeters, but it's not a must. If it works only with one side for a while, that is also ok!

So I don't believe it's so hard to add a new source and a data-channel (with number value) to display/track :)


Cheers,

Kris

ps. I hope it will be there in the app very very soon...

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Hello,

I do not need excuses :D. I'm honestly saying, we have currently other priorities and yes, I definitely want's this feature in Locus Map app. Current ANT+/Bluetooth support is not optimal and lack a few problems, so it is more "Rewrite" operation which will take some time. So if for someone, this feature is essential, than I may only suggest to not to count on it.

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Thanks answering.


Yes, legacy-old-code rolling debts once cheks in with the price and demands, and cries for rewrite :D


Kris

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I almost bought a power-meter today, because I thought Locus supported this.

Luckily I checked the ANT-settings and found out there is no support for power-meters.


As Locus is by far my favorite bike computer, I cancelled the order of a power meter.

This saved me some money, which is a good thing :-) , but I still would like to see support for a power meter in the future ;-)


Davy

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Hi,


I love locus map and was using pro version of it for some time when I bought a stages power meter thinking locus would support it. But it didn't.


I have tested other apps on the ant+ page that can record but wasn't satisfied by those.


Finally, I developed my own app for ant+ on android during corona evenings and nights to show and track power data.


I won't put it on play store as I found later there is another app alreasy existing: ghost racer that allows you to collect and save power data in a way my app was doing it.


For android, you can use split screen display on recent versions.


So my tip: use locus map in split screen mode.


I hope there can be power support in locus map though. It is such a good app.


Frederik

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Split screen sounds like a great idea Frederik. I wanted to do this with the Strava app, but that does not work. Could you compare the reading with the Wahoo app? I compared the Wahoo app to the locus app for Heart Rate on Bluetooth and Ant+, the Wahoo app is a lot quicker to respond to changes than the locus app.

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

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I absolutely love Locus Map Pro as a cycling computer, no need for an extra device other than the smartphone.

I just bought a 4iiii powermeter. Like others here I was expecting the support of bluetooth powermeter, as cadence, speed, heart rate bt devices worked already well.

So from my side this would be a priority, any implementation would be really appreciated. Powermeters are getting more and more common, so it should be worth the effort!


Best regards, Christian

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Please add recording of power meter data into your great app.

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Now that Locus 4 is out you should have plenty of capacity to finally implement the power meter? ;)

Would love to switch back from ipbike (which is very good!) to Locus (which I vaguely remember as really great! Has been a long time since I last used it, all due to this missing feature!)

Thanks, Philipp

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Please add support for power meter sensors. I use Locous Map almost daily with different sensors, own dashboard etc. Unfortunately, I always have to switch to another app to see my power data. Thank you very much.

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Any news on this matter?

Any development would be really apreciated, also based on whatever fee modell.

Thanks, Christian

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As an experienced developer I don't think so, it is such a huge development effort.

You have your bluetooth layer, your data model, your settings and visualization subsystem in the code already.

Adding one another type of bluetooth data-source into the already existing ecosystem is not a big deal.

Series of data is coming over bluetooth and a little algorithm to make some sliding-window average calculation, then persent it as a number (like heartbeat, cadence) is peeeenuts.


So there must be another reason(s) behind, just that sounds not as good as explanations above.

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Hi guys,

the explanation was mentioned earlier. Most of the app code that works with sensors needs to be written from scratch. The original code is around 8 years old and needs a major update. The good news, I'm already slowly working on it ...

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Thanks for the update Menion. Good to hear it is not completely forgotten. Now that also the chinese powermeters are working well at an accessible price, these also make sense for the "average joe" so I guess the demand for this feature is increasing.

So for us who can't directly contribute to the coding, all we can do is keep bumping the thread ;) (sorry for being a bit of a pain in the rear Menion)

Philipp

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Maybe It should be moved to GitHub with a licence you prefer and we could contribute to development... welcome to 21th century of community development.

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Hi guys,

support for "Power sensor" was just added to the new Beta version of Locus Map 4. Because I still do not own the power sensor itself, the test is more than needed. Thanks.

Beta version discussion. Download link is in my signature at bottom of the linked post.

Menion

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Hey Menion, These are awesome news!!! 🤗


Could it be that the link is dead? 🤔

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No, the link is ok

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I tried my Favero Assioma Duo powermeter pedals and they worked nicely.

Connection with pedals found easily and I got powermeter data to Locus Dashboard.

Nice work 👍🙂

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Great news!

I just downloaded the beta version. In the sensors manager I select Power Meter. If I enable the sensor I get the message:


"Hoppla!

Bitte Gerät neu starten

ANT Manager, code: 11216"

What could be wrong here? I have a 4iiii power meter:

https://4iiii.com/usa/products/pdp/left-side-precision-powermeter-ride-ready/


Thanks, Christian

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Hi, hmm as I see 11216 means "Other failure" problem reported by the ANT+ library I use. May you please check the ANT tester app ( https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.quantrity.anttester ) if your ANT system is set up correctly? Thanks.

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Thanks Menion for the update! Tested with my Sigeyi power meter, some issues found and reported in the Beta thread. Let me know if you need any further data.

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Hi Menion, thanks for the feedback so far, I finally got some time to re-check:


So my 4iii power meter works on bluetooth as well. It connects this way to an other cycling app "Cyclemeter" via bluetooth well and I also see it in the general list of bluetooth devices of the phone.

But in Locus unfortunatelly, the powermeter bluetooth device is just not found when I select "Pick bluetooth sensor". I tried several times, restarting app and device and phone.


I can easily connect my heartrate and speed sensor this way in Locus, so there seems to be an issue with the "bluetooth profile" (?) of the powermeter.

9f5f248f8c5115442c3473e51dc51429Any ideas on how to proceed with diagnostics?

Really anxious to get this running :-)

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UPDATE: I just downloaded the last beta 4.3.3.7 --> now I find the device and it connects! :-)


Awesome, road testing will follow as soon as the rain stops ;-)


THANKS!

857ca78b6a5f91449692ed7785277384

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In Version 4.3.3.5 I cannot detect my STAGES Powermeter via Bluetooth. (Unfortunately I have no ANT+ chip). Anybody tested Stages and successfully connected? - I will update to latest version and give an update on this....


...just recognized that powermeter bluetooth support came starting with V.4.3.3.6, so I am very excited,,,

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Hi, I have a stages power meter. I will try to test this weekend and at the latest during next week! Big thanks already for trying to add this feature!

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Update: Stages via Bluetooth works with 4.3.3.8! Great work, I will test the stability on longer rides...

💪 I love this Feature 🥇🤸❤

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I am excited to try this out myself! But even though I am registered in the beta version program in the Google app Store I only have the version 4.3.3


Do I have to do anything in addition or download anything manually?

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I know no other Option then downloading the beta Version by myself from the link Menion posted above...

https://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=7496.0


Click in that post on the link "beta versions"!

Good luck and hopefully enjoy 🙏

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Hey Menion, when in your opinion the compatibility for most powermeters is good enough, could you think about adding further options for the dashboard like "average power" and "maximum power"? Especially the average power would be very useful on longer rides for managing the own performance.


Further more, after the ride it would be pretty cool to see the invest of own power in comparison to heart rate, high meters and distance.


Also if you can define the own ftp (functional treshold power), the border where you produce more lactat than you can absorb and get a visual hint for that ftp (color or something like this). Garmin devices visualize this very well.


But: these are all visions, I am so glad and happy that you now offer at least the visualization of the actual power 🙏

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Hi Menion,

I did some field testing now, please find some more feedback:

- Track export to strava does not contain the power data --> really important for analyzing data afterwards. (Is the power data actually stored in the track data at all, like e.g. heart rate?)

- Live display of the data works really well, I love my new dashboard:

edc30e29245d0ce037e5efb59fd7f527

- The Powermeter also provides Cadence data. But this does not show up yet, see picture.

Thanks for your efforts, really appreciated!


Christian

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Hi Christian,

thanks for the tests! I've just yesterday published new Beta version where I believe will cadence works correctly, so you may give it a try.

Export to Strava: yes, power meter values are stored in the track itself like heart rate or other value (so every trackpoint has recorded value), but export to Strava is made over GPX file format and as I know, GPX does not support power data. I'll check it.

Menion

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For my STAGES Powermeter unfortunately it still transports no cadence data 😟

Or do I have to reconnect the powermeter? 🤔 The data field source can't be changed to certain devices so it should immediately shouldn't it!? 🤔

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Hi guys,

I'm glad to announce, that Locus Map 4.4 was just published yesterday and this feature is available, finally.

I have (here and also on the forum) read, that some of you do not see power values. I'll be glad to get info about sensors that work (so we may add them to the list of supported devices) and also sensors that do not work, the protocol you use (ANT/BT) and if the device connects and no data are visible or even connection is not working. Thanks a lot for the feedback and patience!

Jiří M. aka Menion

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